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Martyn
19th January 2015, 05:50 PM
Something I have always struggled to justify is why are most of my non-commercial pictures shot in black and white and on film. I end up mumbling something about just being more comfortable with the process, that I have done it for a long time and I can control what is happening. It all seems a bit feeble to me. And all that tosh about B/W being the colour of photography, or having more 'soul', what ever that means, just sounds silly. A teacher of mine once asked why B/W, when conducting a critique of my B/W pictures of Kurdish refugees. I could give no real, reasoned justification, just my usual mumbling. He argued that as my pictures concerned a contemporary, political issue, my photos should be in colour, as B/W provides a timeless look - my pictures could have been made at any point in history so were removed from the implications. I continued in colour for that project. How do other FADU members justify their choice of B/W or colour, or for that matter... film, now what justification could there be for that little perversity in this day and age? Can anybody come up with a proper reason?

Peltigera
19th January 2015, 06:03 PM
I don't justify what I do - beyond it is whatI like to do.

Martin Erdner
19th January 2015, 06:26 PM
Reduction.
(there is too much pink in this world)

Mike O'Pray
19th January 2015, 07:19 PM
B&W a timeless look? Isn't it the opposite? Have a look at how most film makers depict the "past" in their colour films. They revert to B&W and if it's early 20th century that is depicted they even throw in sepia

In the case of photojournalism B&W concentrates on the situation the people find themselves in without the distraction of colour. I strongly suspect that colour shots of the Balkans' conflict of the 1990s or Vietnam in the mid to late 60s would have less impact.

Mike

cliveh
19th January 2015, 07:22 PM
Your teacher sounds like a jerk. Black and white is often stronger in message and it's simplicity allows you to see more negative and positive forms within the composition. Stick with it.

skellum
19th January 2015, 07:29 PM
It's tempting to think of photographs as being 'realistic'. Reflected flight from our subject strikes the film, and a chemical process preserves that instant.
Optics, mechanics, chemistry. All science. Not like painting, which is all subjective. Except of course it isn't really true. All photographs are representation of reality. There was some discussion recently about photography as Art. Every step of the process involves a decision. Format, grain, focal length, exposure, DoF, duration. Every decision changes the look of the image. It is a highly subjective process.

Once, all photos were black and white because there was no choice. Now colour is all pervasive. Most people these days taking photos are using digital devices and shooting in colour. It's easy. It's expected. Choosing black and white nowadays is a conscious choice. A statement, if you like. I want it to be clear I'm choosing the process. Black and White celebrates texture and tonality.

I think B&W makes it clear you're inviting the viewer to explore your photograph as a created image, rather than looking through some imaginary window at the real world.
B&W also taps into some of our learned expectations- I just visited Photo.net and browsed their top 350 images. 51 are black and white. Guess what? Most of the B&W are 'street' or 'grand landscape'.
Using B&W can, I suspect, be a kind of visual short-hand to influence the viewer. It links the photograph to the past masters- Adams, HCB, Evans.

It's a trick which won't work for much longer. The preponderance of colour, and the use of colour by many of todays most famous photographers, will eventually make it just as 'respectable' as B&W. Who knows- in another 20 years (or 10?) maybe using B&W will look like pure affectation.

For me, I've used B&W for so long now it has become ingrained. It's how I 'see' photographs. I love the huge, delicately separated range of greys a good print can hold. I like being able to bend reality in some prints. B&W let's me take one negative and print it many different ways, and each will work in it's own right. With colour, tampering too much with reality can feel jarring, or just look wrong.

I don't dislike colour (who couldn't like Ernst Hass??) I shoot some occasionally, but find it's less and less.

David Brown
19th January 2015, 07:37 PM
Other than a teacher in an academic setting, you do not have to justify your choice of materials or methods. Remember, in an academic setting, a teacher is going to challenge everything you do, it's part of the drill. One cannot take it personally. And, if all one does is exactly what the teacher tells them to do, they have not really learned much, have they?

You'll probably find this "silly":

http://silverdarkroom.net/?page_id=167

CambsIan
19th January 2015, 08:09 PM
I hope this does not sound grumpy, it is not meant to, but I shoot B&W because I can, and because I choose to.

Ian

Jon Butler
19th January 2015, 08:35 PM
There is no need to justify passion or love.
J.

Jakecb
19th January 2015, 09:03 PM
I shoot B&W because the photos I most enjoy looking at are B&W.
It's a simple aesthetic choice, like preferring Jazz to Blues or Philip Larkin to Dylan Thomas.

Mike O'Pray
19th January 2015, 10:38 PM
Ian and Jon. These are dangerous sentiments. If enough of our race adopt such stances there is a real danger that life on Earth will get better for all of us :D

Mike

Adrian
19th January 2015, 11:41 PM
I shoot black and white for many reasons,but to be really honest about it, it's because it is satisfying, accessible and not so expensive and tricky as colour printing. I also shoot colour but use a digital work flow. But the colour work all sits on a hard drive and I hardly ever print any of it. I don't own a colour printer. The black and white print comes out of the dark room with me, often still wet and I love to study it, think and maybe have another go printing it differently.

Argentum
19th January 2015, 11:46 PM
all photographs are abstractions and B&W more so than a literal colour image. B&W is about shape, form and gradients in a minimalist form used to represent whatever it is you are wanting show. Less is more. And I do it because I can. And learning to "See in B&W" is cool. I see in colour all the time but in B&W only when I'm really thinking about it. And groping about in the dark is cool too.

RichardWarom
20th January 2015, 06:28 AM
I like black and white and I like using film no other reason and I love the way Martyn throws in these hand grenades and quietly steps back, a brilliant strategy.
Richard

Mike O'Pray
20th January 2015, 02:46 PM
I love the way Martyn throws in these hand grenades and quietly steps back, a brilliant strategy.
Richard

Thought-provoking is another applicable phrase and as long as we enter into it, or not as takes our fancy, in a spirit of "contribution" then it is fine

So far I'd say FADUers have earned themselves a commendation in terms of our spirit.

Mike

JOReynolds
20th January 2015, 03:17 PM
I shoot and print B&W because I can do it properly. I used to sell, install, repair and design colour print processors and I became proficient at printing colour with (other people's) very sophisticated equipment. But, when the opportunity came to set up my own darkroom, I felt that, if I couldn't generate the throughput that would keep the chemistry in good order, I wouldn't attempt colour printing at home. I don't regret the decision.

big paul
20th January 2015, 04:30 PM
here lies my problem i can go in my darkroom and play with B/W film and paper no special programs just move the enlarger head up and down to adjust the size ,the only hi teck gear i have is two light bulbs .I said to my wife get me some of that £1.00 color film ,she came back with 30 rolls ,Now i do developer color film but at the moment i cannot print it ,so that leaves the scanner to copy them on to my computer ,i only have a cheap printer so i cannot print them up ,I have no interest in computers other than reading FADU ,i use the INTERNET as a book and thats it ..so I end up with the negative but the rest of the proses is taken out of my hands .I will use the film up but now i am taking two cameras around with me whenever i am going to photograph something .
at a later date i will have to try and print color
www.essexcockney.com

B&W Neil
20th January 2015, 05:35 PM
A good few years a go I used to go in phases - colour / black and white, but hardly ever together as I found that was hard to do.

For the last 20 odd years it has just been black and white + alternative printing of any type. Some of this black and white work, and the alternatives, have been quite colourful. Cyanotypes, lith prints, lumens, bleach back / redevelop and split toning all spring to mind.

So I now find myself in a strange world where I am a black and white photographer, and see my images as such, but they may well end up quite colourful, and certainly not as seen at the making stage, but often I know what I shall doing with the negative at the printing stage. However, if I am honest sometimes this is not always the case and the type of printing process I shall use comes to me some time later.

I have thought about this several times over the years and I now longer carry such thoughts about with me when I'm out making images as it can become a distraction.

After all, reactively speaking, there are not that many print makers actually making prints these days, by whatever image making method you care to think of. Analogue photography is still an endangered species and with the other form of image making large prints are hardly ever made and the JPG rules the day.

Maybe we should be making as many prints as we can, colour, black and white or whatever and celebrate the print - before print making dies out completely.

Neil.

skellum
20th January 2015, 06:40 PM
With regard to the original post, it was suggested that Marty's modern documentary photography should be in colour. Here's an image I came across whilst viewing another thread.
Take a look, and try to hold onto your first impression.

http://www.professionalphotographer.co.uk/assets/uploads/resources/jpg/Valery%20Melnikov_Russia%20Moscow_Black%20Days%20o f%20Ukraine.jpg

This is a documentary photography, taken during the fighting in Ukraine. To me it feels like a movie-still. Part of that comes from the action, with the two running figures, the woman's hair streaming out, and the billowing smoke.
However, the colour (turned up to MAX) is definitely a large factor. This screams Hollywood.
Would black and white have lent a more sombre tone, so that we focussed more on the fleeing couple than on the spectacle?
Or am I just being an old f@rt?

Tony Marlow
20th January 2015, 07:21 PM
Would black and white have lent a more sombre tone, so that we focussed more on the fleeing couple than on the spectacle?

You are absolutely right, I have looked at the colour version and one converted to B&W. With the colour one your eye goes to the flames and the people are secondary, with the monochrome version the main feature are the people, the flames are secondary. It is amazing how the centre of interest changes.

Tony

Paul Glover
22nd January 2015, 07:45 PM
Unless the color is the intended subject of an image, I find excessive color to be a distraction from the subject.

It's a harder challenge to get a good black and white shot, because you lose the crutch of just jamming those saturation and vibrance sliders all the way to the right. You have to focus more on the tone and shape and texture because those are what will carry the shot.

Also black and white film and printing offers a lot of artistic control at all stages without having to resort to digital manipulation.

chefsteve
24th January 2015, 08:21 AM
I shoot monochrome because I like the artistic look of the finished result. The visual challenges at the time of getting the shot, and then the physical aspects of printing in the darkroom.
I have a digital camera for colour work, family shots etc, but do not take it with me when going out in the landscape with a film camera, so I can just try to think in black and white.

Steve

cliveh
24th January 2015, 08:06 PM
Unless the color is the intended subject of an image, I find excessive color to be a distraction from the subject.

It's a harder challenge to get a good black and white shot, because you lose the crutch of just jamming those saturation and vibrance sliders all the way to the right. You have to focus more on the tone and shape and texture because those are what will carry the shot.

Also black and white film and printing offers a lot of artistic control at all stages without having to resort to digital manipulation.

How true.