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View Full Version : Storing Chemicals - Anyone tried this?


KidderJem
26th February 2016, 10:45 PM
Just thinking about storing chemicals - never a great fan of the concertina bottles for some reason. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had tried using empty wine bottles and pumping the air out with Vacu Wine Saver device?

DaveP
26th February 2016, 10:56 PM
Yep, i've posted about this a few times, it works very well. I generally use empty beer bottles. It works so well frankly I'm amazed it's not standard procedure, sure as hell is more convenient and safer than filling your bottles with thousands of marbles, or spraying propane around the house.

alexmuir
26th February 2016, 11:00 PM
What method is used to empty the wine, or beer bottles?🙃
Alex

Mike O'Pray
26th February 2016, 11:50 PM
Washed-out wine bags in their boxes work very well too, as do polypins. Somewhere in FADU there is a thread on this as well

I am washed-out in the other sense of the word as well but I blame my brother Charlie who came down to my dressing room at the Garden and told me it wasn't my night. They were taking the price on Wilson :D

As it is almost the weekend a bit of levity is justified

!I coulda bin a contender":D

Mike

RichardWarom
27th February 2016, 05:46 AM
Like Mike I also use the empty wine bags and boxes (got the idea off Mike) they have been the best for keeping mixed Bromophon in, its also very enjoyable drinking the contents which of course is essential to obtain the vessels.
Richard

KidderJem
27th February 2016, 05:12 PM
Thanks all.
I think I prefer the bottles idea as I'll probably be doing small volumes of chemicals at a time, and I've found 24 bottles (should be plenty) for £12.10 on line.

ashfaque
4th March 2016, 03:35 PM
Just make sure you label them clearly, keeping them away from others and most importantly, don't drink from them. I don't drink. But I can see this possibility for some, especially on weekends. :D

DaveRob
7th February 2017, 09:43 AM
Maybe these.... kept in a box out of the light....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01FTXN72K?psc=1

MarkH
15th June 2017, 04:15 PM
Like Mike I also use the empty wine bags and boxes (got the idea off Mike) they have been the best for keeping mixed Bromophon in, its also very enjoyable drinking the contents which of course is essential to obtain the vessels.
Richard

Thank you very much for the one you gave me yesterday, will be filling it with D-76 over the weekend.

Ceraunius
14th July 2017, 11:53 AM
Bought 20 of these 500 ml spout bags and I use them to store Xtol (stock) without air. I had bad experiences with concertina bottles:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/500-ML-SAL-500-Aluminum-Foil-Mylar-Stand-Up-Spout-Bag-20-PCS-5-2/32715286312.html

This way I use one per session and the remaining of the 5l solution keeps closed. These bags can be cleaned and reused after use.

Svend
14th July 2017, 12:42 PM
What method is used to empty the wine, or beer bottles?🙃
Alex

Excellent point Alex. One must inhale and savour the nose of the wine, then a tiny slurp and swish over the tongue, holding the pinky finger just so.

The question of varietal is also essential to this matter.

https://westhillwhistler.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/red-wine-lives-longer.jpg

Mike O'Pray
14th July 2017, 05:41 PM
Nice one, SvendN :D

Mike

Hughes
2nd August 2017, 07:11 PM
Hi kidder Jem, I use glass marbles from pound store. Just add more to keep the level in the bottle topped up!
Regards, Hughes

photomi7ch
3rd August 2017, 08:26 AM
A word of encouragement for the collapsible bottle they work very well. They are a better quality than they used to be.

EdmundH
3rd August 2017, 08:47 AM
I've recently adopted the idea of using wine/beer bottles with Vacuvin rubber stoppers and vacuum pump. I'm sure this system has been discussed on the forum before, but it really does seem to be working well to keep solutions in good condition, even in half empty bottles. I can actually see air bubbles rising up out of the liquid as I remove the air from the bottle.

JohnX
3rd August 2017, 05:28 PM
Well, I've been using 250ml glass bottles to keep my Xtol, they have bakolite lids with a washer seal.
I find then very convenient, 250ml stock is concentrated I suppose so tip that in with 250ml of water and thats 500ml of dev for an average small tank, it just saves that load of measuring out and milliliter counting that you'd do with a one shot.
Course, you still have to get the big bucket out, mix and fill the bottles in the first place but, I think its worth considering how you do your souping, the tank capacities and all that.
For instance, I use system 4 tanks, a 500 and a 1500, so its one bottle for the 500 or 3 for the 1500....simplez
Using an entire 250ml bottle for one 120 means that that bottle will never be exposed to air apart from when it was filled, it works good for Xtol, its not gonna work for everything obviously.

.

mhxhm
6th August 2017, 04:48 PM
Not sure if that's been mentioned before: I'm using Tetenal Protectan spray. For example, Xtol stock keeps fine in a 5 litre canister for several months even when there's only a litre of dev left in there. Been using it since the 90's and never bothered with any other method. I simply top up all bottles at the end of the day.

pentaxpete
13th November 2017, 07:44 PM
I use 'Butane Gas' bought in Poundland for £ 1 -00 much CHEAPER than the Tetenal. It is a 'refill' -- I have to use some small needle nose pliers to pull on the red plastic tube though to get some out into bottles. I also use it to squirt some into Sodium Hydroxide container as it is 'Hydroscopic' and absorbs water vapour if I don't.

Bob
13th November 2017, 09:30 PM
I used to use argon to sit on the developer but that got awkward to find when B&Q stopped stocking it (it's used in welding). You can still get argon/CO2 mix easily but that is not suitable for this purpose. You can probably still get argon only from proper welding suppliers, but it just became too much hassle.

I recently bought some of the 500ml and 1l spout bags and am just popping upstars to mix up some ID11 so I'll see how that goes...

Cheers, Bob.

ashfaque
12th May 2018, 10:56 AM
Can I use this Butane gas? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Newport-300ml-Purified-Butane-Impurities/dp/B00GMPC8IY

Bob
12th May 2018, 02:06 PM
Any butane will do but I've gone back to argon after finding it cheaply on Amazon. Argon is inert but butane is rather less so and having my darkroom filled with little incendary devices makes me nervous :). The butane is a lot easier to use tho - the bottles of argon are thick and heavy and you need a regulator to extract the gas.

They both have the advantage of being heavier than air so even if there is plenty of air left in the container, the gas should blanket the cheminals keeping the air away. I tested argon some time ago by squirting some into a 1l measuring graduate, leaving it for a minute and lowering a lighted taper into it. Sure enough, about half-way down the taper went out - while lowering it into the emply graduate it went all the way to the bottom. Do NOT try this with butane :wag:

Saying that, there is always air/oxygen mixed in with a chemical so the best you can do is stop more being added.

ashfaque
12th May 2018, 02:19 PM
Thanks Bob. I'll get the Butane for the time being. Since I'm here in UK only until Early October I'm keeping things very simple.

The chemical suppier (back home) also told me that argon is cheap, but that the problem is one has to deal those large and heavy cylinder.

So if I can grab any tiny user replaceable gas cannister in UK, those Fabreeze air freshener size (if such thing exits), I'll take it with me back to Dhaka.

Michael
12th May 2018, 05:28 PM
ashfaque, why not get Protectan instead? At least it is marketed with our purpose in mind. I have used it happily for years.

ashfaque
12th May 2018, 08:46 PM
ashfaque, why not get Protectan instead? At least it is marketed with our purpose in mind. I have used it happily for years.

Hi Michael,
Largely it is the cost. Tetenal, imo, is charging a huger mark-up. I can't justify the cost when I can get something cheaper like Butane.

Also, once I'm back to Dhaka, it'll be very difficult to get it there. My friend actually bought a canister of it 2/3 years ago from Germany. So when he was packing his friend, who was working for the Airport, told him he shouldn't take it in his bag as wasn't sure about it! So it is still in Germany.

Terry S
13th May 2018, 12:32 PM
Out of curiosity, I have just checked ebay uk and the cheapest bottle of argon in a 'disposable' canister is £16.40, which is round about the price of a can of Protectan - depending upon where you buy it of course.

But, then you have to add on some form of adapter to the top and a bit of hose. These start off cheaply but I wouldn't know where to start there!

So for now I will continue with my much used can of Protecan, which I've had for I don't know how many years.

Yes, it may be marked up in price for what it is, but it works for me. Only downside is that you can't tell how much is left in the can by shaking it... :)

Terry S

Bob
13th May 2018, 07:21 PM
Out of curiosity, I have just checked ebay uk and the cheapest bottle of argon in a 'disposable' canister is £16.40, which is round about the price of a can of Protectan - depending upon where you buy it of course.

Terry S

Amazon has them from £10 inc postage and there is lot more argon in there than butane in Protectan. But yes, Protectan definitely wins the ease of use/less fuss game.

Terry S
14th May 2018, 11:27 AM
Ah, I forgot to check Amazon as well.

The first of what looks like an all in one kit / set is here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Argon-co2-tank-lt-does-Ricardian/dp/B00B81672U/ref=sr_1_102?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1526296778&sr=1-102&keywords=argon

Taking a good look again though, I have now been put off totally going down the above argon route, as there seems to be a lot of hefty looking gloves and eyes / face protector glasses / visors / helmets in the same listing that as the bottles of gas, which I presume one would need. Me now thinks its initial positive point of cost now seems out-wade by the negatives, including a much higher outlay for all the different bits.

Yep, it might be expensive for what it is, but it's done / doing me proud by it's capacity to last, so I'll think I'll stick with the can available for photographic purposes.

Terry S

Georgine
15th May 2018, 11:45 AM
Heeey, you know that Llike Mike I also use the empty wine bags and boxes they have been the best for keeping mixed Bromophon in, its also

Jon Janson
21st July 2018, 09:36 PM
Glass Marbles..
Buy a big bag of kids glass marbles and as you use the developer add the marbles to displace the air until the dev is close to the top of the bottle neck, give the bottle a slight squeeze as you tighten the cap to get the last remaining air out... Been doing it for donkey's, it's cheap and works well.

Mike O'Pray
21st July 2018, 11:11 PM
Terry your link seems to take me to a kit which is £19.29 so more expensive than Protectan and with a £17.50 delivery cost :eek:

My wine bags cost less. Of course on the minus side, I have to drain the bags of wine which is a dirty job but someone's got to do it. :D

Mike

Terry S
23rd July 2018, 12:05 PM
Terry your link seems to take me to a kit which is £19.29 so more expensive than Protectan and with a £17.50 delivery cost :eek:

My wine bags cost less. Of course on the minus side, I have to drain the bags of wine which is a dirty job but someone's got to do it. :D

Mike

Without rereading the whole thread again Mike, I only put the link up as a comparison, as people were suggesting using different gases, including in this case 'argon gas'.

My end conclusion was that there were too many other negatives for me to buy it and I was going to stick with the 'protectan' (or what ever it's proper name is). The only downside with 'protectan' is that one can't tell how much is left in it, as it weights so very little. But, I've been using the same can for years and use it regularly and it's still working, so it still gets my vote! :)

Terry S

Michael
23rd July 2018, 08:47 PM
Just typing this as there should be a post today before mine and it's not showing here.

Bob
23rd July 2018, 10:35 PM
All you need is the gas bottle, a regulator that screws in to the bottle so you can get the gas out, and a short length of 4mm tubing. After that the only cost is additional gas bottles when they run out.

The only real advantage the argon has in our use is that it is 100% inert at any temperature whereas butane can get rather frisky in the presence of too much heat...

But for sure, the Protectan is still way simpler and easier to use - if absurdly expensive for what it is.

Hmmm - if you could fit the pushbutton from a can of Protectan on a normal £2 can of butane which comes with the little plastic adaptors, that would probably give the best bang-per-buck.

Terry S
25th October 2018, 12:07 PM
Ho hum, the time has finally arrived. My years old can of Protectan has finally come to an end... :(

Looking at the price of a new can, shows that it hasn't risen that much over time. But, it still grieves me to pay so much for something that I expect to have cost so little to make.

Rechecking the 'ingredients' on the empty tin last night, it reminded me that it does seem to only contain basically 'lighter fuel' gases.

And as Pete says below, I too am very tempted to try using a 'pound-land shop' of lighter fuel, which gives us an idea of the markup Tetenal are getting!!!

I use 'Butane Gas' bought in Poundland for £ 1 -00 much CHEAPER than the Tetenal. It is a 'refill' -- I have to use some small needle nose pliers to pull on the red plastic tube though to get some out into bottles.

But ho, hum, for the overall convenience I suppose I will have to bite my tongue as I order another tin of Tetenal's stuff. On the brighter side, it has lasted me years, so if cost is divided by years, it would equal a small amount of money per usage, I suppose or am I just trying to convince myself here???...

On receipt this time around, I will put the date of arrival and the cost etc. on the tin, so that I can see how much I'm squeezed for, the next time I have to purchase once more.

And finally, with such a good mark up on the manufacturing cost, I am surprised that some other company hasn't got in on the act? Or maybe they have and I haven't found them? Anyone know any different?

Terry S

kevsNorthants
26th November 2018, 08:43 AM
Just thinking about storing chemicals - never a great fan of the concertina bottles for some reason. <snipped>

There's a lot to be said for plastic pop bottles, IMO. They're cheap and come filled with pop when bought new. If one doesn't want pop, one can usually find some empty plastic pop bottles on the streets, especially on bin collection days!

I squeeze out the air and reseal tightly. Most brands with airtight caps work well, though they're not all made equal; it's best to check before depending on them.

Earlier this year I used some ID-11 stock I'd stored in a 500ml pop bottle since 2013. The stock was fresh as a daisy, and even the 1:3 working solution keeps well. So yay for plastic pop bottles.

Having said that, I live in a child-and-vulnerable-adult-free household.

Bob
26th November 2018, 01:08 PM
There's a lot to be said for plastic pop bottles, IMO. They're cheap and come filled with pop when bought new. If one doesn't want pop, one can usually find some empty plastic pop bottles on the streets, especially on bin collection days!

I squeeze out the air and reseal tightly. Most brands with airtight caps work well, though they're not all made equal; it's best to check before depending on them.

Earlier this year I used some ID-11 stock I'd stored in a 500ml pop bottle since 2013. The stock was fresh as a daisy, and even the 1:3 working solution keeps well. So yay for plastic pop bottles.

Having said that, I live in a child-and-vulnerable-adult-free household.Same here, tho' mine was only 2 years old, stored in a 2l cola bottle in a cupboard to keep the dark in. Squeezed until no air left and sealed. I chose a fizzy-pop bottle on the grounds that if it keeps the CO2 in, it should keep the O2 out.


Cheers, Bob.

Mike O'Pray
26th November 2018, 02:01 PM
Stating the obvious here but the only problem with plastic bottles is that you cannot squeeze all the liquid out whereas with winebags they empty leaving about a dessertspoonful at the most.

Bottles are fine of course if the size used is the same as the amount needed so its a full or empty scenario or if the big bottle once squeezed has its remnants decanted into smaller bottles

Mike

Bob
26th November 2018, 03:59 PM
You are right of course Mike that is their major advantage, but I just found winebags too fussy - not being able to see the liquid in the ones I have (white) left me unsure if I had got all the air out. I found it simpler to use clear plastic fizzy-pop bottles and fill with gas when I can no longer squeeze them enough to remove the air.


Each to their own of course - it's interesting how many solutions there are to the same problems we all have!

Cheers, Bob.