Retro Photographic Pyro

[Andrew Bartram]

having run out of Peter Hogan's wonderful brew and not having any more in stock I remembered that I had some un mixed retro Pryo in my darkroom. I'have just made up the two seperate solutions as per the instructions but, unlike Prescysol, where 10.5 mins partial stand seems OK for just about anything, the Retro instructions are not so firm - they suggest 7 - 7.5 minutes as a starting point with agitation every 5 seconds.

Has anyone any experience of using this version of Pyro, especially with Neopan 400, Delta 400 and FP4 - if so what dev times have you gone for?

Andrew B

[Mike O'Pray]

Sorry this a query rather than any help but agitation every 5 secs must mean almost constant agitation? By the time you've put the tank down and maybe tapped for airballs, it'd be time to pick it up again.

If Pyro produces great negs then maybe every 5 secs is a price worth paying but it doesn't sound like it's much of an enjoyment unless you were a practising to play the maracas or an apprentice cocktail waiter:D:

Mike

[Andrew Bartram]

It's certainly a lot of agitation! - especially compared to the partial stand method I'm used to.
I have developed a film with it this evening using the recommended time and agitation method and the negs do appear very dense. I think I will cut down the agitation for the next film.

Thanks for the observation though

Andrew

[Dave]

It's certainly a lot of agitation! - especially compared to the partial stand method I'm used to.
I have developed a film with it this evening using the recommended time and agitation method and the negs do appear very dense. I think I will cut down the agitation for the next film.

Thanks for the observation though

Andrew

My experience suggest that the difference in density achieved with vigorous agitation as opposed to gentle is equivalent to about one stop increase in exposure. I know the effect isn't quite the same, but it's a guide.

[Bob]

Um, are you sure that isn't supposed to be 5 seconds agitation every 30 seconds or minute? That would be more in line with common methods.

[Andrew Bartram]

Um, are you sure that isn't supposed to be 5 seconds agitation every 30 seconds or minute? That would be more in line with common methods.

Nope - continuous agitation for first 30 secs then once every 30 secs, Their website has all the info.
I think I will move to once every 30 secs however then try partial stand at an extended time of 10.5 mins.

Thanks for the comments so far

Andrew

[Tony Marlow]

Just to add to the debate, Creative Monochrome Ltd produced a pyro developer, CM Pyro, where the recommended agitation was by inversion continuously for the first 30secs. then one inversion every 5 seconds which is not far short of continuously. I did use it when it was available and it seemed to work OK with the recommended development time of 7 mins. for all films at box speed. Like Prescysol, over exposure and reduced development was not recommended

Tony

[Andrew Bartram]

Just to add to the debate, Creative Monochrome Ltd produced a pyro developer, CM Pyro, where the recommended agitation was by inversion continuously for the first 30secs. then one inversion every 5 seconds which is not far short of continuously. I did use it when it was available and it seemed to work OK with the recommended development time of 7 mins. for all films at box speed. Like Prescysol, over exposure and reduced development was not recommended

Tony

Tony

Sounds like the same brew as the Retro stuff.

Just developed film No 2 for 30 secs continuous then one inversion every 30 secs and the negs do look OK. I am still re-adding the used dev at the end of mthe fix stage though and I may cut that out for the next film.

All of the films were rated at 200 which is my normao EI for Neopan but for this developer it may have added to the density?

Onwards and upwards....

Andrew

[Trevor Crone]

Andrew, I've not used the Retro pyro but do use PMK pyro which I mix from formula. My working method for roll and 4x5 sheet film is; continuous agitation for the first minute and 5-6 seconds agitation every 30 seconds thereafter at a temperature of 21'C. I also presoak the film in plain water for a minute or so.

This is now my workhorse developer and I'm very happy with the negatives.

Hope all goes well for you.

PS. I no longer use the developer after soak.

[Andrew Bartram]

Andrew, I've not used the Retro pyro but do use PMK pyro which I mix from formula. My working method for roll and 4x5 sheet film is; continuous agitation for the first minute and 5-6 seconds agitation every 30 seconds thereafter at a temperature of 21'C. I also presoak the film in plain water for a minute or so.

This is now my workhorse developer and I'm very happy with the negatives.

Hope all goes well for you.

PS. I no longer use the developer after soak.

trevor

My experiments seem to be focusing in on times and agitation similar to PMK. Indeed my next move is to leave out the post dev soak to see what difference it makes.

Thanks Trevor

[Peter Hogan]

A post development soak just increases overall stain, and that includes base fog. Does nothing for the neg but does increase exposure times. No reason at all to do it....

[Keith Tapscott.]

Tony

Sounds like the same brew as the Retro stuff.

AndrewYou`re right. CM-Pyro and Retro-Pyro are (were) made under license by Speedibrews. They also make PMK for Silverprint.
I suspect that the Retro-Pyro is fairly close to the WD2D formula.

[Andrew Bartram]

A post development soak just increases overall stain, and that includes base fog. Does nothing for the neg but does increase exposure times. No reason at all to do it....

Peter

I wondered how long it would take for you to comment.
I had long suspected this might be the case but good to have it confirmed.
To develop (no pun intended) the discussion further, I have been using your Prescysol for some time with excellent results till I ran out over the weekend (keep meaning to call in and pick up more) and made up this Retro Pyro. The first results produced a really deep yellow stain, second results with reduced agitation produced a less distinct stain but still yellow.

Peter, I've read that the stain colour can be quite critical when using VC papers - any comments?

Andrew

[Peter Hogan]

Peter

I wondered how long it would take for you to comment.
I had long suspected this might be the case but good to have it confirmed.
To develop (no pun intended) the discussion further, I have been using your Prescysol for some time with excellent results till I ran out over the weekend (keep meaning to call in and pick up more) and made up this Retro Pyro. The first results produced a really deep yellow stain, second results with reduced agitation produced a less distinct stain but still yellow.

Peter, I've read that the stain colour can be quite critical when using VC papers - any comments?

Andrew
One of the effects of stain on VC papers is to soften the contrast. The yellow of Pyro will have more of an effect than the brownish stain of catechol developers. Some softening is good; it masks the highlights to help prevent burning out and to make printing easier. Too much softening can sometimes affect the tonal rendition to give unpleasant results.
The stain/softening effect is why you often see people saying that they need to print harder when using these kind of developers. It's not a fault, more a characteristic! And a beneficial one at that.
Incidentally, the stain produced is usually quite subtle, and doesn't always look great to the eye. (It varies from film to film, as well) It's an actinic stain, though, and a stained negative will print with far more density than visual inspection would suggest.

I guess everybody knows by now that the stain varies in density and is proportionate to the amount of exposure to light, so I won't bother mentioning it...:)

[Andrew Bartram]

Thanks Peter

[numnutz]

My first post here so Hi...

I am at present using Retro Pyro. I develop in a Patterson orbital tank for between 7 and 8½ minutes at 70° dependent on subject, I rinse the film after fixing for one minute and put the developer back in for two minutes to boost the stain. then wash "The Ilford Way".

hope this helps

nn :)

[Mark Snowdon]

Hi,

I have been using Retro and CM Pyro for many years and have been pleased with the results. The developer is made by Mike Maunders (Speedibrews) to his own recipe. As far as agitation is concerned I follow the recommended initial 30 seconds continuous and then one inversion every 5 seconds thereafter. I think frequent agitation is usual with pyro otherwise you get uneven development. I do not use the after bath as I find it is unnecessary. I have developed FP4, HP5, SFX and Delta 3200 (at EI 1000) in the brew, all for the recommended 7 mins at 21deg.

Mark

[Dave]

Hi,

I have been using Retro and CM Pyro for many years and have been pleased with the results. The developer is made by Mike Maunders (Speedibrews) to his own recipe. As far as agitation is concerned I follow the recommended initial 30 seconds continuous and then one inversion every 5 seconds thereafter. I think frequent agitation is usual with pyro otherwise you get uneven development. I do not use the after bath as I find it is unnecessary. I have developed FP4, HP5, SFX and Delta 3200 (at EI 1000) in the brew, all for the recommended 7 mins at 21deg.

Mark

That's useful information Mark; and welcome to the forum.

[B&W Neil]

A warm welcome to the forum Mark.

Neil.

[Andrew Bartram]

Hi,

I have been using Retro and CM Pyro for many years and have been pleased with the results. The developer is made by Mike Maunders (Speedibrews) to his own recipe. As far as agitation is concerned I follow the recommended initial 30 seconds continuous and then one inversion every 5 seconds thereafter. I think frequent agitation is usual with pyro otherwise you get uneven development. I do not use the after bath as I find it is unnecessary. I have developed FP4, HP5, SFX and Delta 3200 (at EI 1000) in the brew, all for the recommended 7 mins at 21deg.

Mark

Mark

Welcome and thanks for your contribution. I've now tried several combos of agitation including partial stand - continuous for 1m then 10secs every 3 mins. This is the preferred method for Peter Hogan's Prescysol. The Retro brew responds well to this with no uneven development. The main difference between the Retro and Prescysol seems to be the staining colour and intensity, the Retro having a fairly deep yellow - tried Fomapan 100, Delta 400 and Neopan 400 - compared with the lighter brown stain of the prescysol. Not really convinced one way or tother at the moment. Peter's brew has the benefit of coming pre mixed and is a different brew quite clearly. I have always produced lovely prints from the Prescysol so will probably revert to that.

Andrew