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Svend
6th March 2017, 12:00 AM
I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a print developer with a long tray life? By that I don't mean print capacity, but rather one that is long-lasting in an open tray without going dead overnight. My experience with Bromophen and Dektol has been just that -- they are great developers, and I will still use them for longer single sessions. But it would be nice to be able to walk away from the darkroom for a few days and walk right back into a printing session without having to mix a fresh batch of developer every time. With a busy work schedule and active family, it's difficult to dedicate long blocks of time to printing -- 2 to 4 hours at a time is realistic.

I will try the ID-78 formula from Ian Grant's site for when I want a warm tone developer. But for most of my printing I prefer neutral tones, and will do selenium (mostly) or sepia (occasionally) afterwards to suit the image. So a long-lasting neutral developer is what I'm after. Ansco 130 is said to be such, but the short shelf life of glycin is making me hesitate.

For off-the-shelf products, Edwal TST and Ethol LPD are apparently very good in this respect, and perform well image-wise too, but they're not available here in Canada and the US shops won't ship them out of country.

Any recommendations for commercial products or DIY formulae greatly appreciated! Many thanks...

Svend

Slixtiesix
6th March 2017, 06:51 AM
Calbe N113, now manufactured as Adox Adotol Konstant. Neutral tone, very long shelf life. It is a powder that lasts indefinitely in its unmixed form and also very long as a solution. I do not leave developer in an open tray overnight though, always poor it into a bottle when I end the session.

Richard Gould
6th March 2017, 07:29 AM
Most print developers will keep for a few days, up to a week, if poured back into a bottle after the session, the only one I know of that does not keep well in a bottle is Ilford MG Developer, I use either Fotospeed WT10, which I use at 1/19, and have kept that for a week in a bottle, or Firstcall paper developer, which is a clone of a Rollei pasper developer, same thing, keeps well in a closed bottle, but AFIK no paper developer will keep more than a few hours in a open tray
Richard

Lostlabours
6th March 2017, 11:00 AM
I will try the ID-78 formula from Ian Grant's site for when I want a warm tone developer. But for most of my printing I prefer neutral tones, and will do selenium (mostly) or sepia (occasionally) afterwards to suit the image. So a long-lasting neutral developer is what I'm after. Ansco 130 is said to be such, but the short shelf life of glycin is making me hesitate.

Svend

ID-62 is close to PQ Universal and gives Neutral tones, essentially the only difference beteen ID-78 and ID-62 is ID-78 uses 4g/l Potassium Bromide which giveve the warmth and ID-62 has less Bromide 2g/l and 20ml IBT (benzotriazole soln) which gives neutral tones.

So you could mix a batch and split finally adding the restrainers.

Ian

Mike O'Pray
6th March 2017, 11:46 AM
My immediate reaction was to suggest Ethol LPD, based on what I had read on APUG where the U.S. must be over 95% of the membership. It seems crazy that with 1000s of miles of border and much of the U.S. closer to Canada than the rest of the U.S. that it isn't available in Canada.

Unfortunately while AgPhotographic had a picture of it on its site for a long time it never seemed to materialise and I know of no other U.K. stockist that even mentions it.

It is something I might try as well if it were available

Mike

Mike

photomi7ch
6th March 2017, 11:56 AM
Maybe you need to use a slot processor. I can leave the diluted chemicals in there for weeks without use and find on my return that they are still usable. When it come to trays I pour into bottles at the end of each session to keep them fresh. In each case I do a quick test at the start of the session before I get carried away.

alexmuir
6th March 2017, 01:24 PM
If you want to keep the developer in the tray, you could devise some sort of floating lid, together with cling film to reduce oxidisation. The only downside I see, however, is that this would involve a lot of messing around, and mess, at the start of a new session. Decanting to bottles as others suggest would be my preferred option. Slot processors also work well for preserving chemicals, but they don't appeal to everyone. I wouldn't like to be without mine for the convenience it gives.
Alex



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Svend
6th March 2017, 01:44 PM
Some good suggestions here -- thanks!

Slixtiesix -- I will check for the Calbe/Adox product here. I can get Adox Neutol and MCC here in Canada (at Argentix), but I've not seen Adotol here or for order from the US stores.

Richard -- I've not tried pouring Dektol working sol'n back into a bottle to try to keep it going. I did try using plastic film wrap to cover the tray but it didn't keep more than a couple of days. It would be nice to have something last at least a week.

Mike -- you've made me dig a bit deeper into getting Ethol shipped to Canada. Turns out Adorama can do it (and they ship to the UK as well...just sayin'...:)). The powder form is what I've been looking for, and they've got it. Everyone else has only liquid and/or will ship only within the US. Definitely worth a try - thanks for the nudge.

Ian -- from some comments I've read about tray life of ID-78, it sounds exactly like what I'm looking for, except for the warm tones. So if ID-62 is as long lasting and gives neutral tones, then it might be ideal. And I'm pretty sure I have all the ingredients on hand to mix up a batch. This will be a good starting point to see how it performs image-wise and how it lasts.

Alex, Mitch -- not sure I want more equipment in the house ;). It's pretty crowded in the workroom as it is. I will check out the slot processors, but I do love to see the image appear in front of me in a tray. Gives me more control too, as I can pull it if need be. I don't think you can do that with a slot tank(?).

Good tips from you all about pouring working sol'n back into a bottle instead of leaving it in a tray. I will definitely try that. Alex - you're right, plastic film is a drippy mess -- tried that, and would rather not go there again.

Best,
Svend

JOReynolds
6th March 2017, 02:14 PM
...you could devise some sort of floating lid...
I would like to put in a good word for Plastazote from https://www.efoam.co.uk/zotefoam-plastazote.php?gclid=CN-egaWFwtICFQaVGwodj1gBCg
as a floating lid. Type LD33 is Nitrogen-blown (so it won't react with the developer) and made of cross-linked polyethylene (so it isn't affected by it). A metre-square sheet, 5mm thick, costs £14.65 in post and VAT. It is a material I can vouch for. I recently came across a 60L RA4 developer replenisher tank with its floating lid from the mid-1990s, in a fully-functioning state. It looked disgusting but came up shining after a couple of days in 5% citric acid.
Make sure it fits well in the dish.

EdmundH
6th March 2017, 03:08 PM
I have exactly the same problem regarding time and family, and working space. My answer to quick setup is to keep working solutions in 600ml plastic soup tubs (We get 'fresh' soup from the supermarket in these). The wide top makes it easy to pour in or out of trays, and they also fit into the microwave for quick heating to working temperature. Despite the large air space, the chemicals generally stay usable for up to two weeks.

Slixtiesix
6th March 2017, 04:46 PM
If you cannot get Adotol Konstant in Canada you could try ordering directly from Fotoimpex/Germany (the manufacturer). They ship overseas.

https://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/chemistry/adox-adotol-konstant-to-make-5000-ml-paper-developer.html

Mike O'Pray
6th March 2017, 05:15 PM
Sven, Process Supplies, one of our sponsors, have Adox Adotol Konstant for what seems a very reasonable price but have a notice that it will not post any chemistry overseas

As it uses the phrase "any chemistry" I assume this covers powder such as this developer.

Has anyone here asked the question of whether powder developer is covered by this refusal to ship overseas?

If no-one responds by tomorrow, Sven, then I'll give them a call and ask the question directly and let you and others who may be interested in the answer know via this thread

There is no way to know if Adox Adotol Konstant matches LPD in longevity but for a U.K. resident at least, this looks to be a good bet.

I hate to think what Adorama might charge for LPD from the West Coast of the U.S. plus VAT and Customs charges once it arrives in the U.K.

By the way powder for 5 litres is £7. Does anyone know what the dilution rate is?

Thanks

Mike

Mike

Slixtiesix
6th March 2017, 06:04 PM
It is used straight, although some people may dilute it to get longer times.

Svend
6th March 2017, 06:08 PM
Mike, I think you would be surprised at how reasonable shipping costs actually are between N. America and the UK. I go the other direction and order from some UK cycling shops, and shipping is either free (amazingly) or so cheap that it's like local rates. You might walk through an order at B&H until you get to the shipping quote to see what it would be, but I'd bet it's lower than you expect. Customs is another matter entirely -- e.g. incoming parcels to Canada over a certain dollar value will get dinged an outrageous amount of duty, taxes and "processing fees"; those less about C$100 seem to be let in unmolested. I'd bet UK would be similar or worse.

BTW, no need to check for Adotol for me in the UK -- I can dig deeper and will probably find it here. Jacques at Argentix.ca in Quebec carries Adox stuff (I get my Rodinal from him), so I can ping him to see if he can special order some for me. He's pretty open to that sort of thing.

JOReynolds, Edmund -- some good suggestions...thanks. I have never considered a floating lid as I had no idea what kind of plastic would work. I may check around here to see if something similar is available to your stuff. In the meantime, I like Edmund's idea of the big mouth tubs - beats fussing with bottles and funnels.

Cheers,
Svend

Jerry Bodine
6th March 2017, 06:12 PM
Svend, I believe I have the answer you're looking for. It's a developer called Liquidol, marketed by Photographers Formulary in Montana. I still have a liter of it yet unopened for testing but unfortunately got a huge dose of high temp in my darkroom due to a wall heater thermostat sticking in the ON position (opened the door to get something and was hit with 108F air - that's 42C !!). Managed to get it unstuck and cooled the room down with large fan at the door. Had an electrician come and trash the thermostat & replace it with a heavy duty ON-OFF switch that will only be used by me when I'm in there working in the winter. I have a new bottle coming as we speak for my tests, which I can compare with results from the overheated bottle to see if it's still any good. Liquidol was developed by Ron Mowrey (retired Kodak engineer) who visits APUG forum regularly as "Photo Engineer" in collaboration with Bill Troop of Darkroom Cookbook fame. Check this (http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/a-loooong-lasting-paper-developer.98690/) thread on the subject; there are numerous posts by Ron in it. I've also queried him via PM about it and received this info:
"I have bottles of unopened Liquidol that are years old and that still work. Opened bottles will keep for at least 6 months if not a year, and in a tray the keeping is very good. I have had excellent results after 48 hours in an open tray.

You do not need to store Liquidol in a special manner either unopened or opened."


http://stores.photoformulary.com/liquidol-paper-developer/
http://photoformulary.homestead.com/02-0200.pdf

It's also available to order online from Freestyle in Los Angeles as well as Adorama in NYC; B&H stopped shipping chemicals last November.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/search?q=liquidol
https://www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx?searchinfo=liquidol

Mike O'Pray
6th March 2017, 08:33 PM
It is used straight, although some people may dilute it to get longer times.

Can you say what the times are for straight and higher dilutions? Setting aside its greater longevity, at straight, it ceases to be reasonably priced when compared to Ilford MG at 1+9

Thanks

Mike

Svend
6th March 2017, 08:49 PM
Very interesting Jerry. I will read through that thread carefully and see what Ron M. has to say about it. If you could post back here once you've run your tests that would be great -- I'd be very interested to get your impressions. Sounds like great stuff -- hope your overheated bottle is still usable. Would be a shame to dump it.

All in all, it sounds like there are a few great options here that will answer nicely. At this point, since I have all the bulk ingredients on hand and can start right away, I will try a stirring up a batch of ID-62 and see how it works. But, being of curious mind, when I have a long-enough shopping list of other stuff I will order some Ethol and Liquidol and compare them for image quality.

In the meantime I will look into floating lids, and in the short term getting some easy-fill containers to hold the developer between printing sessions. I'd rather not leave open trays out, even overnight -- too much traffic in the workshop/darkroom....too much potential for a big mess. :slap: I can just picture it: daughter goes down to sharpen and tune her skis and whacks one into a couple of trays on the next bench....:eek:

Question for Ian: if I happen to have ID-62 in a tray, but want warmer tones to suit a particular image, can I add a wee bit of bromide to bump up the warmth? Or will the benzotriazole negate it's effect (tone-wise, that is)? And, will there then be too much restrainer, causing fogging? I plan to try Troop's suggestion (per Darkroom Cookbook, p. 76) to keep a bottle each of carbonate and bromide beside the developer tray and add small amounts as needed to fine tune tone and contrast. Seem reasonable?

Thanks,
Svend

Slixtiesix
6th March 2017, 09:16 PM
Developing times in fresh N113/Adotol are around 90-120s. I never experimented with higher dilutions personally.

Mike O'Pray
6th March 2017, 10:10 PM
Developing times in fresh N113/Adotol are around 90-120s. I never experimented with higher dilutions personally.
Thanks. The instructions with this stuff seem to be almost non existent. I have "googled" but cannot find any information on times or other dilutions. I know that Adox isn't a big company compared to say Ilford but I expected a bit more info.

Mike

Slixtiesix
7th March 2017, 07:10 AM
Mike, here they are (albeit rather basic) http://www.solmu.org/pub/foto/Paper_Dev_N_113%20en.pdf

Mike O'Pray
7th March 2017, 11:19 AM
Thanks for the link. RC paper's development time is very short at 30-45 secs which suggests this is strong stuff and capable of further dilution but no mention at all of this as an option.

I can only assume that some users have experimented with dilutions instead of stock and arrived at a satisfactory print but this is just an assumption on my part

Mike

Svend
7th March 2017, 01:02 PM
I hate to think what Adorama might charge for LPD from the West Coast of the U.S. plus VAT and Customs charges once it arrives in the U.K.

Mike

Mike, if you want to try Ethol LPD and don't want to go through the expense of online shipping charges, then I can send you some. At some point in the coming months, when I have enough other stuff to justify an online order, I will be getting a can or two of the powder type. Happy to order extra and send it over to you. Parcel rates by regular mail to the UK are very reasonable. Let me know...

Cheers,
Svend

Jerry Bodine
15th April 2017, 06:11 PM
...If you could post back here once you've run your tests that would be great -- I'd be very interested to get your impressions. Sounds like great stuff -- hope your overheated bottle is still usable. Would be a shame to dump it...

Well, Svend, all I can say is it’s been a very eventful five weeks since my last post about Liquidol. Some background chronologically: I opened the fresh bottle of Liquidol and used it to test Ilford’s FB Classic. When the paper first hit the market (and MGIV was discontinued) I bought a 100-sheet box of 5x7 glossy paper to make projection prints of a 31-step wedge, using Ilford’s under-lens filters (00, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, no filter). This was a repeat of tests I had completed with MGIV paper (of choice at that time), using Ilford Multigrade Developer 1+9, to check out my LED mod of the 5x7 Omega lamphouse. Those tests also included tri-color separation filters 47B (blue) and 58 (green) to see how closely #5 and #00 approached those limits, because the LEDs were 7500K and Ilford recommends incandescents (~2800K). I was very pleased with those results, which when plotted in Excel allowed me to “slide” each curve along the x-scale (RLE) to intersect at a common arbitrary point and compare the slopes more easily. Screenshot of plot is attached.

However, when doing all this with Classic / Liquidol (1+9) the results were horrid - #00 was ok, but all the #0 thru #5 showed little slope change. I queried Ilford with details of my experience, including the batch number, and received their response the next morning. They had already received numerous complaints, had issued a recall on that batch number from their distributors, and reformulated the emulsion to resolve the issues (but some boxes escaped the recall and I got one of the escapees). They sent me a replacement 100-sheet box of fresh 8x10 Classic Glossy (how’s that for customer service) and it took 13 days to get here – they used Royal Mail (no tracking) for cost reasons.

Tests are now completed for Classic / Liquidol 1+9 without the tri-color filters:
Dev time = 3 minutes (20C), Ilfostop = 10 seconds, Ilford Rapid Fix = 60 seconds, Rinse & dry.

Screenshots are attached of the Liquidol curves, both before and after “sliding.” The no-filter curve lies between #2 and #3 (~2.3) - a good thing. I was surprised to see that #5 slope was a bit less than #4, can’t explain, but since most of my printing is split-grade, I’ll just use #4 and #00 instead. I’m very excited about the color improvement of Classic, much better whites, it suits my preference for landscape work. MGIV lacked the bright whites. No experience yet regarding selenium toning results, but Ilford claims Classic accepts toning very well. I also did a print of one of the wedges in a tray that was left for over 48 hrs - no difference than fresh dev.

Regarding the issue with the overheated Liquidol, I did a side-by-side comparison of wedge prints and densities with #2 filter in both fresh and overheated developer 1+9; they were nearly IDENTICAL. So the overheated stuff was totally unaffected – very tough product. :) I see now that B&H has resumed shipping of chemicals and is offering Liquidol, but won’t ship the 2-liter concentrate size. Shipping is quite less than from the Formulary.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/search?Ntt=liquidol&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&typedValue=&Top+Nav-Search=

John King
16th April 2017, 07:52 AM
if you go down the slot processor route, life can be further extended by using the replenish method. What rates you would youe would be down to guesswork but taking colour RA4 as an example, about 100cc per 800 square inches of paper (including test strips).

Martin Aislabie
17th April 2017, 10:49 AM
A good way of preserving the activity of any chemical kept in an open tray is to float blocks of expanded polystyrene in them.

Its an old photographic trick that was used in many commercial darkrooms, back in the day.

If you cut the blocks carefully, you will minimise the effective surface area of the chemical that is it exposed to the atmosphere - and so reduces the rate that the pesky oxygen renders your photographic chemicals useless.

You can buy expended polystyrene from B&Q or Jewsons in the UK - and it is cheap as chips.

For what its worth - I would keep the expanded polystyrene float for each chemical separate and not mix them up.

A quick rinse in running tap water and they are ready to be re-used.

Martin.

Mike O'Pray
17th April 2017, 04:58 PM
Sounds like a good idea, Martin. I imagine that you could cut the polystyrene to fit almost exactly so the exposed surface area was as close to zero as made no difference.

Mike

Svend
18th April 2017, 12:37 AM
Hi Jerry, sorry for taking so long to respond. Just got free from Easter visitors and long weekend craziness. Phew...

That's quite a trial you conducted. Thank you very much for getting back here, and for your very detailed reply. I'm encouraged by your results, especially the fact that Liquidol seems to be just as potent after 48 hrs. in tray as when fresh. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Walk away from the darkroom for a couple of days and jump right back into a printing session without mixing a fresh batch. I think between the good keeping qualities of a developer like this, and doing as Martin and others suggested and using a floating lid or decanting into a big jug, I should be able to stretch out a batch of developer over at least a week. That would be brilliant if I could make it work.

I will take some time over the coming days to study your graphs, and may get back to you with a question or two. For the moment, the only thing I'm curious about is whether you have a sense of any differences in image quality vs., say, Dektol or Bromophen or whatever your standard developer is/was? Your comment about better whites with Classic seem to come from your first impression of the paper as compared to MGIV, with Classic being new to you, as much as the paper/developer combo. Am I right with that assumption?

As for ordering, it's a no-go for online orders of this stuff at B+H -- special order only, no online orders accepted (maybe it's 'cause I'm a Canuck :rolleyes:). But Freestyle and Adorama also sell it and it's in stock. No restrictions on shipping from them either, which is nice.

Martin -- I actually don't have a clear idea of what expanded polystyrene actually looks like. Is that the same as the Dow Styrofoam rigid board insulation? That's the only stuff like it that I can think of.

Sounds like just the thing, though, and would certainly be quick and easy to cover a tray with a sheet of this stuff. I will snoop around here at some plastics suppliers and see what I can scrounge up. Good tip - thanks!

Svend

Jerry Bodine
18th April 2017, 05:56 AM
So far I can only judge from step wedge tests I've done with Classic/Liquidol vs. MGIV/Ilford MG Developer when I said the brighter whites are impressive. Even step wedge prints look much better than MGIV (muddy and warmer by comparison). The Liquidol instructions suggest a dev time of 60 seconds, which is quite shorter than my norm; I noted that Alan Ross (who makes the Special Edition prints from AA's negatives) uses 3 minutes for Classic paper in Ilford MG developer, so I used 3 min in doing the wedge tests so far. I have some more wedge prints drying at the moment which are 60s spot checks to see any benefits.

As for covering the open trays, I've always covered Dektol with plastic clear-wrap (for food) from the supermarket and placed it directly on the developer and up and over the sides of the tray to totally seal out an oxygen. Seemed to work well.

Martin Aislabie
18th April 2017, 09:53 AM
Martin -- I actually don't have a clear idea of what expanded polystyrene actually looks like. Is that the same as the Dow Styrofoam rigid board insulation? That's the only stuff like it that I can think of.

Svend

Hi Svend

Yes - expanded polystyrene is Styrofoam in North America.

Styrofoam is the trade name Dow Chemicals give to it expanded polystyrene.

Martin

Svend
18th April 2017, 01:14 PM
Martin -- aha! Good one. That stuff is available at every home centre here, and is cheap as chips. I should be able to get all I need for less than $20. Thanks!

Jerry -- thanks for the clarification of the Classic vs. MGIV. Sounds like the former is a good fit for using Liquidol.

I'm to the point now where I've got some experimenting of my own to do wrt. paper developers. It looks like there are a few with really good tray life and high print capacity that would serve well: Liquidol, Ethol LPD, and Ian Grant's homebrew recipes for ID-62 and ID-78. Each have the advantage of being long-lasting in the bottle as stock as well. The ID-62/78 formulas have a couple of extra pluses in their favour in that I can quickly toss together a working batch right before printing and don't need to store any as stock. And then I can tweak their tray solution by adding a bit of carbonate or bromide if needed to suit a particular image. Not sure I can do that with Liquidol or Ethol. We'll see... So now it's a matter of evaluating all four for their image properties with the papers I will be using. Should be interesting, and I will post back here once I run some side-by-side tests.

Thanks everyone for all the great tips and help here! As always, much appreciated.

Cheers,
Svend

Svend
18th April 2017, 05:17 PM
Jerry -- I just read a few posts about Liquidol over on APUG. Sounds like great stuff. Everyone who's used it was very keen about it's image quality -- cool tones, deep blacks, clean whites; ticking all my boxes here -- as well as it's tray and stock life. I'm looking forward to trying it. Thanks for the head's up on this.

Svend

JOReynolds
19th April 2017, 09:01 AM
I once operated a phototypesetting machine called StarSettograph (or was it StarLettograph?) which had fonts on a long acrylic 'negative'. It used special paper, presoaked in a special developer, and the projected character appeared within a few seconds. Not only was the paper/developer combination very quick, but the developer kept for days in a dish. The developer, sold in powder form, was expensive and distribution was unreliable, so I tried various other developers. The worst problem was staining and low contrast next day.
Long dish life is not a commercial requirement nowadays. If anyone knows of a solution to the problem, contribute it here!

Hughes
19th April 2017, 03:22 PM
Moersch 482 a neutral tone paper dev. available from Wolfgang Moersch.de Advertised as "State of the art"
Or Macodirect.de & Silverprint.co.uk London
Regards, Hughes LRPS

Jerry Bodine
19th April 2017, 03:36 PM
Svend- I did neglect to mention that Liquidol does start to bring up an image rather quickly, so if you're using Factorial Development be ready for a surprise. I didn't use it for my step wedge tests, so I never checked the timing but I'd guess it's about 10-15 seconds with fresh developer.

Svend
19th April 2017, 08:45 PM
Hey Jerry, thanks for the tip on that. Good to know. Sounds like this stuff is turbo-charged. If I see smoke coming from the tray when I slip a sheet in, I shouldn't be surprised.

Hughes -- is it 4812 you mean? I didn't see 482 on his site. In any case I don't think I can get that particular Moersch developer here in Canada; only his lith stuff. In the US, Freestyle carries 4812, but it's very pricey at US$47/litre...about C$63. But thanks for the recommendation; perhaps someone on your side of the Atlantic will benefit. It sounds like good stuff -- the write-up speaks of VERY long stock and working sol'n life - 8 months for the latter! Nice!

Best,
Svend

Jerry Bodine
21st April 2017, 05:46 PM
Svend- Another tip: My spot check wedge tests developed for 60 seconds in 1+9 (suggested by Formulary) showed that the max density only reached 1.9, but 3-minutes reached 2.1 without toning. So when I begin making REAL prints I plan to slip in a few more wedge prints to find the minimum develop time that reaches 2.1. Just thought you should know when you begin working with Liquidol.

Incidentally, I reported my test result comparing overheated dev with fresh dev to Ron M. to update him and also told him about the 60s vs 3m results. He was happy to get that info, and he volunteered this comment: "I know that when it is going bad, increasing development times brings the image back almost to normal."

Jerry

Svend
21st April 2017, 09:35 PM
Hi Jerry,
Thanks again for another tip! Much appreciated. Sounds like this developer allows some latitude in the tray -- good density results at 1 min.; even more density at 3 min., if needed, without totally mucking things up.

I get the impression you're pretty stoked to have found this developer, and with the initial results you're getting from it. :)

As a general comment, I find it great that new products like Liquidol and the Moersch 4812 are being brought to market nowadays. And especially great that they seem to be tailored to how a lot of people work with them now...that is, like myself, multiple occasional printing sessions over a week or two, a few of hours at a time, working around a busy home life and career. Beats dumping a batch of Dektol or Bromophen after only a few prints.

Regards, and wishing you a good weekend!
Svend

Stocky
24th April 2017, 12:32 AM
.......

Ian -- from some comments I've read about tray life of ID-78, it sounds exactly like what I'm looking for, except for the warm tones. So if ID-62 is as long lasting and gives neutral tones, then it might be ideal. And I'm pretty sure I have all the ingredients on hand to mix up a batch. This will be a good starting point to see how it performs image-wise and how it lasts.
.......
Best,
Svend

It does appear that Liquidol is the answer.

However, I use ID-78 in a Nova slot processor and have found the warm tone to be very subtle indeed. It obviously depends on the paper though. I'm using MGIV at the moment.

John King
24th April 2017, 06:31 AM
Thanks for the link. RC paper's development time is very short at 30-45 secs which suggests this is strong stuff and capable of further dilution but no mention at all of this as an option.

I can only assume that some users have experimented with dilutions instead of stock and arrived at a satisfactory print but this is just an assumption on my part

Mike

I normally dilute Multigrade 1 to 12 instead of 1 to 9. I have tried 1 to 15 but the resulting development even extended to 2 mins did not produce a good dense black. Even at 1 to 12, I extend the development to 1 minute or even slightly longer for resin coated. For fibre never less than 2.5 mins

A mentor of mine, many, many years ago said "So long as the development does not cause staining there is nothing to be lost by extending the development. You pay for the silver content, so use it".

Svend
24th April 2017, 01:21 PM
Stocky -- thanks for the insight. That's good to know. I might have mentioned that I'm not really a big fan of very warm tone prints, preferring to print neutral and then toning afterwards if needed. But very subtle warmth in a print is very nice indeed -- no aversion to that at all -- so ID-78 might be a good choice with the right paper. The good thing about these formulas is their flexibility -- as per Ian's suggestion on his website, mix up a batch of neutral-tone base stock, then tweak it to make ID-78 or ID-62 just before printing to suit the images. I'm not sure that's possible with Liquidol or Ethol LPD -- I will have to try adding some carbonate or bromide to each in a tray and see what happens.

At some point I intend to experiment with all four of these and then decide which works best for me.

"So long as the development does not cause staining there is nothing to be lost by extending the development. You pay for the silver content, so use it".
Great quote, John. I like it!

Best,
Svend

Yearlyz
27th May 2020, 10:57 AM
I also use LD33 as a floating lid and can recommend. Here's where I get my Plastazote (https://www.gbfoamdirect.co.uk/foam-cut-to-size/plastazote-foam-closed-cell-foam-sheets/).