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Chrisvclick
12th April 2018, 02:37 PM
Hi all,
Was given a complete darkroom worth of equipment a while back. Amongst the bits was a "new" set of 5, 120 fp4 films with use by date of 1978 and about 30 new cardboard pakets of developer. Id11 and m&b's Promicrol... Having a spirit of adventure :), I tried using the film but has a nasty "copy" of the paper backing visible when developed. The id11 works and seems to be ok at standard times... The Promicrol also works but had to guestimate a dev time... Film came out fine..
Does anyone have any suitable proved times though ?.

Richard Gould
12th April 2018, 03:15 PM
As far as I know M@B's promicrol was a liquad concentrate, at least it was when I used in the dim and distant past, and has not been made for at least 30 years, maybe more, when Champion bought out May and Bakers chemicals, it was re formulated due to the very expensive and hard to get Glysin, so I would be very surprised if the old Promicrol would be working attall, ID11 is worth a shot, and 1978 FP4 is way past it's sell by date,I can't even find times for old promicrol on the MDC, and that tends to have listings for long gone developers,I do remember using M'B promicrol, it was a very good developer in it's time, but I only ever remember it as a one shot concentratem never as a powder developer,
Richard

Chrisvclick
12th April 2018, 03:55 PM
Honest, tis a powder and must be pre 1978 because the film expired then. .... Can use it stock or dilute down to 1+4 while "keeping its properties" :) ... Does work but must have gone off a bit by now :)

Richard Gould
12th April 2018, 04:45 PM
it's a new one on me, maybe someone else here might have further info, but I have never come across Promicrol as a powder, but the last time I used Promicrol was at least 50 years ago, around the time I discovered Rodinal, which I have used for the most part for the last 50 years, I have tried other developers, such as D76 and ''new''promicrol amongst others, but always return to Rodinol
Richard

Mike O'Pray
12th April 2018, 05:49 PM
I have no experience of Promicrol whatsoever but it was my impression that provided the packet has remained sealed and if a paper packet, as might be the case for those far-off days, has remained dry then powder developers should remain OK. Plastic packets are virtually impervious to the usual suspects of water, high humidity, condensation etc

We really need Ian Grant on this one. Few of us, maybe none of us, has knowledge of chemicals or the books etc stretching that far back.

Mike

Bob Smith
12th April 2018, 06:24 PM
https://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=&Developer=%25Promicrol%25&mdc=Search&TempUnits=C&TimeUnits=D

Bob Smith

Chrisvclick
12th April 2018, 06:50 PM
The link is to the new promicrol im afraid. Yup, mixed up a paket and guestimated a time from old fp4 and film is now drying in the cabinet :) . Its got images, but how good i cant tell yet..
I read the same about dry developers, looks like it could be right ?

DavidMB
12th April 2018, 07:53 PM
I used the old powder Promicrol in the mid to late 70s - made up to stock and then shot my FP4 at 250 ASA and dev'd in I think 1+4 - not sure on times. One of the ingredients was carcinogenic so it got pilled.

DavidMB
12th April 2018, 10:43 PM
Corrections - I used the old powder Promicrol in the mid to late 70s - made up to stock and then shot my FP4 at 250 ASA and dev'd in I think 1+14 - not sure on times, somewhere around 10 mins . One of the ingredients was carcinogenic so it got pulled.

Martin Rick
13th April 2018, 07:59 AM
I first came into photography while working at M&B's Dagenham site nearly 50 years ago. Promicrol was sold then as a packet containing powder to make 600 ml. The unavailability of HEAP sulphate caused the product to be withdrawn. It also used glycin as a developer. I used FP4 with an EI of 200 developed in the indiluted state I seem to recall. The speed increase was genuine with no increased grain.

Chrisvclick
13th April 2018, 09:13 AM
Now that matches what i have here but suggests 1+4 as a maximum dilution... 1+14 would give a development time of around an hour for fp4 plus
Just for interest, i mixed 1+1 which i worked out to aprrox 14 mins for fp4 plus . I then allowed 50% increase for age. and its badly over developed leading me to think it might not have suffered much through age. Will try without the 50% next :) ...

photomi7ch
13th April 2018, 09:40 AM
As a rule of thumb I always start at standard dev with out of date film if it works all well and good. if not you have a starting point from which to increase the time.

Martin Rick
13th April 2018, 01:12 PM
Now that matches what i have here but suggests 1+4 as a maximum dilution... 1+14 would give a development time of around an hour for fp4 plus
Just for interest, i mixed 1+1 which i worked out to aprrox 14 mins for fp4 plus . I then allowed 50% increase for age. and its badly over developed leading me to think it might not have suffered much through age. Will try without the 50% next :) ...I can remember about that time Victor Blackman writing in AP about pushing HP5 to 1600 or maybe 3200 ASA using diluted Promicrol with a much extended developing time. It may have been an early reference to stand developing. The photo that accompanied it was some nerd jumping off the high board at an indoor pool, I recall.

DavidMB
14th April 2018, 09:15 PM
Have pieced together the essential bits of an old Promicrol instruction sheet. I must have been mixing up the old and new versions. Normally used as stock or or diluted up to 1+6 - above 1+4 it said grain would increase. There were nomograms for temperature with stock and also one for dilution - 85cc needed per film. Will post a pdf of the bits of instructions in manuals section.

Failed in uploading pdf so link for now to my Google Drive - perhaps someone else can do the honours.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fqTfG8ttrYa0AhuvNSf-Cm3yxyEfwDej

Chrisvclick
15th April 2018, 05:12 PM
Got a few pristine copies of the instruction sheet here :) .....
Just for info, fp4+ at iso 200, with 1+1 dilution about 12 to 15 minutes dependent on contrast required....

Well impressed....