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pentaxpete
24th July 2018, 08:30 AM
I have many cassettes of outdated 'Agfa Pan 25 Professional' dated 01/91 and in the instruction leaflet it gives only time for Rodinal 1+25 at 4 minutes -- very short and I want to use 1+50 dilution. It is NOT the 'APX' type but the original emulsion -- any TIPS please on processing in Rodinal 1+50 OR ID11 1+1 ==== NO info on Massive Dev Chart as film is long discontinued.

skellum
24th July 2018, 09:15 AM
Interesting problem, Pete.
When you say 'many cassetes', would that be enough to be worth sacrificing one to get the best out of the rest?
If so, I'd clip test it. Agfapan 25 was really lovely, so worth a bit of effort. I know you've been doing even longer than me, but here's what I'd do.

I found one person suggesting 10 mins at 1:50 https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/agfapan-apx-25-in-rodianl-1-50-heaven-but-now-what.294381/

I'd shoot some test frames of a plain wall with a little texture in it at metered exposure, then -3,-2,-1,blank, +1,+2,+3 and process for 10 minutes in 1+50.

I'd stick the blank frame in the enlarger and do a 'minimum time for maximum black test', then do a contact sheet of the test frames for that time.

The metered frame should come out looking like Zone V, or about the same as an 18% grey card. The underexposed frames should also show some separation. If not, and they're all too dark, you might need to rate it slower (it's pretty old!). You could judge actual film speed by seeing which frame most closely matches your 18% card.

The +3 frame should be almost paper white with a little texture- if it's too grey, or too close to the +2 frame, you need longer development. Maybe 10%?
If (though I think it unlikely) the +3 was blank white you might reduce dev 10%.

Might take a couple of hours, and half a roll of film, but I think it would give you a good idea of actual film speed and get you close to a proper dev time. No, it's not as accurate as using a densitometer (which I don't have) but it would give you a start on using this stuff.
Good luck!

Mike O'Pray
24th July 2018, 10:29 AM
Pete, sounds a useful approach from skellum. The possible alternative is semi-stand for an hour. At semi-stand dilutions and one hour, exact timing ceases to have much importance. Of course you have to believe that there are no drawbacks with semi-stand and opinion on this is somewhat divided although perhaps less so that "full stand" for whatever time the "full standers" advocate.

If it was one film I'd be tempted to try semi-or even full stand but as there are several films which may be all OK, then being conservative, I'd try skellum's method.

Let us know how it goes

Mike

GoodOldNorm
24th July 2018, 10:34 AM
https://foundfilm.livejournal.com/16982.html https://foundfilm.livejournal.com/12334.html

Richard Gould
24th July 2018, 11:04 AM
Pete,
If it was me I would try semi stand development in Rodinal 1/100, invert for 2 minutes at start, and again at 30 minutes, you should get a negative, maybe not the best contrast, but that would give you at least a start, I have developed long outdated films this way in the past from both Kodak and Ilford with reasonably good results, developing this way devolops to completion, best of luck and I think worth a try, if you want to develop for shorter time then add around 10% to the develpoping time which would give around 5 minutes, but I think stand or semi stand is the best way for a start,
Richard

big paul
24th July 2018, 11:33 AM
What ever happens Pete it sounds like you are going to have some fun with that film ......



www.essexcockney.com

Lostlabours
24th July 2018, 02:14 PM
I shot a lot of AP25 & AP100. Agfa didn't recommend 1+25 because the time was too short, they recommended Rodinal 1+50 9mins @ 20C.

Ian

Stocky
24th July 2018, 10:42 PM
I have a typewritten sheet from Agfa Australia from the late 1970s, in the days when an enquiry was replied to with a typewritten letter, suggesting 8 to 10 minutes for Rodinal 1+50, so confirming Ian's recommendation above. Interesting that the time is so very much longer than for 1+25 (3 to 5 min). These times for "dish or small tank."
Please let us know how it goes. Slow films are apparently longer lasting (when unexposed).

Lostlabours
25th July 2018, 06:52 AM
I have a typewritten sheet from Agfa Australia from the late 1970s, in the days when an enquiry was replied to with a typewritten letter, suggesting 8 to 10 minutes for Rodinal 1+50, so confirming Ian's recommendation above. Interesting that the time is so very much longer than for 1+25 (3 to 5 min). These times for "dish or small tank."
Please let us know how it goes. Slow films are apparently longer lasting (when unexposed).

Agfa's US data sheets gave quite different times and dilutions for all films in Rodinal compared to the UK/European Rodinal. The late Peter Goldfield who was the private importer of Agfa films, paper, & chemistry for a few years (1980s) reckoned that the concentration of the US Rodinal differed.

The 9 mins I suggested is actually Agfa's time from their datasheet, I always found Agfa's times accurate and matched my own testing. Agfa used the DIN method to determine ASA/DIN which later became the ISO, this was more practical than the ASA/BS method and matched real world conditions.

Ian

pentaxpete
25th July 2018, 09:31 AM
Thanks for all your replies -- yes I have found differences in Rodinal times ! Well -- I loaded a cassette into my 'Gift' Yashica FR-1 and took 7 frames with 2 lenses, and cut it in changing bag and tried my 'Home-Made ID11 batch' for 7.5 mins at 20oC -- had to put tank and pots of Dev, Stop and Fix in Fridge -- and it was a 'Good Guess' -- I think next test I will rate at 20ASA and give maybe 8 mins development. Next to test with the Infamous RODINAL !!

skellum
25th July 2018, 11:23 AM
Good luck Peter. I look forward to seeing the results when you master this stuff.
I used Agfapan 25 in 120 a long time back- loved it. Smooth, sharp, and somehow a bit easier to manage than PanF.
Nowadays I love PanF; I just had to learn to be less cavalier in my temperature control and agitation. Still miss Agfapan though.
Did you ever try Agfa Scala?

pentaxpete
25th July 2018, 01:22 PM
Well, I braved the 30oC heat an took a few on the film using same lens 80-200mm f4 Yashica ML zoom at f5.6 ,the standard 50mm f1.9 Yashica DB and a Tamron 135mm f2.5 at f4. I put all into fridge -- temperature was 'creeping up' but I gave it 10 minutes Rodinal 1+50 rating film 20 ASA and got some good negs -- too HOT to do prints now ! i looked under x6 Magnifier at same subjects taken using my ID11 1+1 and the Rodinal ones seemed to resolve fine detail better than ID11.
YES -- I HAVE used 'SCALA' and results are on my Flickr --
https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=25850987%40N03&sort=date-taken-desc&text=Agfa%20Scal&view_all=1

skellum
25th July 2018, 02:42 PM
Well done Peter-
We don't have 30 degrees here, we have 13. Looks like October outside
the windows. In fact, looks like London in your Flickr photos. Very nice work- I have no aptitude for street photography at all, so I'm impressed. I liked Scala, just one more that got away from us.

Lostlabours
25th July 2018, 04:06 PM
AP25/APX25 and AP100/APX100 always gave superb results with Rodinal which was in fact the recommended developer for highest quality results.

I mainly shot AP25/APX25 in a 6x9 roll film back with my Wista 45DX and was constantly amazed at the resolution. APX25 disappeared after one of the component chemicals needed for its emulsion went out of production, sales by then were too low to cover the costs of re-formulating it.

Some of the finest grain, and best resolution, 35mm images I've seen were made with AP25 & AP100 and the later APX versions, they were about the best films made.

Tmax100 in Rodinal gives comparable quality but at a stop slower than APX100 (Agfa made version not current).

Ian

pentaxpete
26th July 2018, 08:50 AM
I gave only 'Gentle ' agitation -- 2 invertions only on the minute. Funnily enough, the film 'base' is a bit 'Blue' on the Rodinal strip but clear on the ID11 strip. I have now loaded rest of film into my Minolta Dynax 40 and will take it out with my Dynax 5 loaded with Fuji Sensia II.

Mike O'Pray
26th July 2018, 11:20 AM
Pete, your links takes me to flickr but not to the specific photos of yours. It seems to be a diabolical site to navigate - maybe that deliberate if you are not a member. What do I need to do? I am not a member and if I am required to sign-on to see them then I'll forget it.

Mike

Terry S
26th July 2018, 11:55 AM
Pete, your links takes me to flickr but not to the specific photos of yours. It seems to be a diabolical site to navigate - maybe that deliberate...
Mike

Hi Mike, I have just clicked on the link and it worked fine, showing me Peter's b/w work, with a good selection of street photography.

But I do agree with you about the navigation of the site = which like so many others, are also non-user friendly - member or not! :(

Terry S

Mike O'Pray
26th July 2018, 02:44 PM
Hi Mike, I have just clicked on the link and it worked fine, showing me Peter's b/w work, with a good selection of street photography.


Terry S

Well the good news is that in clicking again, it has now given me a number of Pete's pictures but which are the ones from his Agfapan 25 film?. I note that SCALA is mentioned by Pete and appears on his Flickr page as well but what has SCALA got to do with his Agfapan 25 film?

I may have lost the plot here. It is 30 degrees C as I write

Mike

Bill
27th July 2018, 06:06 AM
Well the good news is that in clicking again, it has now given me a number of Pete's pictures but which are the ones from his Agfapan 25 film?.

Mike

I've just clicked on the link and had a look.

Mike, if you hover over an image it tells you a basic part of the title. I found the bottom line middle two are the APX25 ones with Scala either side.

Pete, some interesting work there.

Bill

Mike O'Pray
27th July 2018, 10:09 AM
Thanks Bill. I'll have to remember the hovering trick. Yes the Agfapan 25 shots look fine, Pete.

Mike