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B&W Neil
31st October 2019, 04:38 PM
Kodak HC-110

I have been using HC-110 for years and it's never been hard to buy but recently (although I have some) I have noticed many suppliers are out of stock.

This is strange because the rumor mill indicates Kodak are keeping it going, although it's not clear who now makes it, and the formula may have changed. But in my experience with a newish bottle of HC 110 it performs exactly like the HC 110 I was using 20 + years ago. I am even using the same developing times.

The other thing I've noticed is the price is creeping up every time I look!

Hopefully this current supply problem is just a blip and it will become easy to buy once again.

If you are running low on HC 110, or want to stock up, I have just ordered some from our sponsor, The Imaging Warehouse, at a good price.


Neil.

Anon01
31st October 2019, 04:55 PM
https://filmphotographyproject.com/content/reviews/2019/09/kodak-hc-110-bw-developer-new-formula-2019/

Which may explain it



.

Anon01
31st October 2019, 04:57 PM
The old

https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/kodak_msds/Kodak-HC110_Film_Developer-MSDS.pdf


The new

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/uat/files/wysiwyg/pro/chemistry/j24.pdf

Lostlabours
31st October 2019, 04:58 PM
The developer has been completely reformulated according to Kodak themselves. That's probably why it's in short supply as old stock is phased out and production of the new version is increased.

HC-110 has been changed before switching Pyrocatechin with Hydroquinone but that's less significant than what's essentially a different developer with the same properties. Part of the manufacture of HC-110 was quite complex.

Ian

Jerry Bodine
31st October 2019, 05:09 PM
The shelf life of the latest version (2019) will remain unknown for quite some time. That's important for casual users to understand. I still have a few of the pint (438ml) bottles - known to last indefinitely - from a massive purchase years ago, probably enough to last me until I croak. I would caution casual users to avoid buying large amounts of the new stuff until shelf life data begins to dribble in.

B&W Neil
31st October 2019, 06:05 PM
Thanks everyone - I am pleased to learn HC-110 is to continue and the supply blip is just a temporary one.

Neil.

Mike O'Pray
31st October 2019, 07:11 PM
Yes as Jerry says there is no way to know at this early stage if the new HC110 will have the same almost legendary keeping properties as the old stuff but you'd imagine that Kodak would have some knowledge based on its chemistry of how long the new stuff will keep

However on a thread on Photrio I laid all the posts on this subject together and still could not come to a conclusion as the joke used to go for economists and the need for a definite decision :D

From what I could glean no-one had attempted to get an answer from Kodak or if they have then they kept to themselves(most unlikely) or Kodak wasn't prepared to give an answer

Mike

B&W Neil
31st October 2019, 07:45 PM
Yes as Jerry says there is no way to know at this early stage if the new HC110 will have the same almost legendary keeping properties as the old stuff but you'd imagine that Kodak would have some knowledge based on its chemistry of how long the new stuff will keep

However on a thread on Photrio I laid all the posts on this subject together and still could not come to a conclusion as the joke used to go for economists and the need for a definite decision :D

From what I could glean no-one had attempted to get an answer from Kodak or if they have then they kept to themselves(most unlikely) or Kodak wasn't prepared to give an answer

Mike


I usually decant the 1 liter of HC-110 into two 500mm brown bottles and use one (with an inert gas on the top) and store the other in my fridge. I only use 500mm of HC-110 per year so if the new stuff keeps for two years, stored like this, that will do me :)

Neil.

Keith Tapscott.
1st November 2019, 02:11 PM
Kodak HC-110

I have been using HC-110 for years and it's never been hard to buy but recently (although I have some) I have noticed many suppliers are out of stock.

This is strange because the rumor mill indicates Kodak are keeping it going, although it's not clear who now makes it, and the formula may have changed. But in my experience with a newish bottle of HC 110 it performs exactly like the HC 110 I was using 20 + years ago. I am even using the same developing times.

The other thing I've noticed is the price is creeping up every time I look!

Hopefully this current supply problem is just a blip and it will become easy to buy once again.

If you are running low on HC 110, or want to stock up, I have just ordered some from our sponsor, The Imaging Warehouse, at a good price.


Neil.Hi Neil,
How about writing a review of this developer and why you like it on the imaging warehouse website? I have read that it last well stored as a concentrate.

Keith.

Keith Tapscott.
1st November 2019, 02:25 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/AnalogCommunity/comments/clizjg/new_hc110_formula_and_its_noticeable/

B&W Neil
1st November 2019, 03:12 PM
Hi Neil,
How about writing a review of this developer and why you like it on the imaging warehouse website? I have read that it last well stored as a concentrate.

Keith.


Keith - writing a review on HC-110 would be akin to writing a review on D76. It's all been done 1000s of times :)

Neil.

Tom Kershaw
2nd November 2019, 01:30 PM
Ilfotec HC from ILFORD should work in a similar fashion.

B&W Neil
2nd November 2019, 02:04 PM
Ilfotec HC from ILFORD should work in a similar fashion.


You are right here Tom Ilfotec HC is similar and you can even use the same developing times as those used for HC-110. The only thing is Ilfotec HC's keeping qualities are nowhere as good as those for HC-110 - IIRC it's about a year max.

Neil.

Michael
2nd November 2019, 04:06 PM
Neil, with Protectan I easily kept a bottle of Ilfotec HC going for 8 years plus. My current bottle stands at three years and is still almost colourless.

Bill
2nd November 2019, 04:09 PM
My first HC was 22 years old and still working when it ran out. My new one is around 4 years old and going strong.

B&W Neil
2nd November 2019, 04:22 PM
Neil, with Protectan I easily kept a bottle of Ilfotec HC going for 8 years plus. My current bottle stands at three years and is still almost colourless.

Good to hear that Michael.

I always use Protectcan, it's great stuff.

Neil.

B&W Neil
2nd November 2019, 04:30 PM
My first HC was 22 years old and still working when it ran out. My new one is around 4 years old and going strong.

Bill,
Currently I get through around a liter per 12 to 18 months so I haven't had any keeping problems. But a few years ago when I was also using XTOL I noticed I had some HC-110 that had been in darkroom for about 7 years and it was still going strong.

Neil.

DaveInElland
2nd November 2019, 04:39 PM
Protectcan costs around £20 (I’ve only checked one supplier) so isn’t an insignificant item - how long does it last though (I know length of string comes to mind). Ballpark are we talking one or two cans a year? I appreciate there is a whole plethora of variables but does the average darkroom user buy this every month or once or twice a year?
TIA

Mike O'Pray
2nd November 2019, 05:43 PM
The key is how much is needed on the surface of a litre container of Ilfotec HC each time you decant some developer and I have no idea how you work out how many such puffs a Protectan can holds.

My experience is that I have had my can for several years, possibly 10 but I decant my paper developer, film developer and fixer into wine bags so only have need of a tiny amount on top of my paper developer slot on my Nova and a minute puff on top of my 250ml bottle when I pour my film fixer back into its bottle for a few more re-uses before dumping

So my experience will be useless as a guide unless others' have the same kind of set-up

Mike

Michael
2nd November 2019, 06:00 PM
For what it's worth, Dave, I bought three cans when it looked as if Tetenal was going to fail (paid rather less than £20 each); and I expect them to see me out.

But I develop only around 40-50 films per year.

B&W Neil
2nd November 2019, 06:34 PM
Protectcan costs around £20 (I’ve only checked one supplier) so isn’t an insignificant item - how long does it last though (I know length of string comes to mind). Ballpark are we talking one or two cans a year? I appreciate there is a whole plethora of variables but does the average darkroom user buy this every month or once or twice a year?
TIA


It lasts a long time -in my hands about 3 years per can. But if you want to cut the cost any inert gas in a can will do. Winemakers / drinkers use one which you can buy online or from wine making shops . I have used them and they are fine - do the same job and are cheaper.

Neil.

DaveInElland
2nd November 2019, 06:59 PM
The key is how much is needed on the surface of a litre container of Ilfotec HC each time you decant some developer and I have no idea how you work out how many such puffs a Protectan can holds.

My experience is that I have had my can for several years, possibly 10 but I decant my paper developer, film developer and fixer into wine bags so only have need of a tiny amount on top of my paper developer slot on my Nova and a minute puff on top of my 250ml bottle when I pour my film fixer back into its bottle for a few more re-uses before dumping

So my experience will be useless as a guide unless others' have the same kind of set-up

Mike
Thanks Mike, the context makes it a very helpful response - appreciated!

DaveInElland
2nd November 2019, 07:03 PM
For what it's worth, Dave, I bought three cans when it looked as if Tetenal was going to fail (paid rather less than £20 each); and I expect them to see me out.

But I develop only around 40-50 films per year.

That number of films sounds very similar to my expectations Michael. I store chemicals in a glass bottle commensurate with the amount of liquid so there is not too much of a gap at the top. Thanks as always!

DaveInElland
2nd November 2019, 07:08 PM
It lasts a long time -in my hands about 3 years per can. But if you want to cut the cost any inert gas in a can will do. Winemakers / drinkers use one which you can buy online or from wine making shops . I have used them and they are fine - do the same job and are cheaper.

Neil.

I didn’t even realise such things existed Neil! From what I’m reading in this thread and others it’s a worthwhile investment however and quite cost effective in real terms. I shall add it to my next order.

Thanks again!

B&W Neil
2nd November 2019, 07:29 PM
I didn’t even realise such things existed Neil! From what I’m reading in this thread and others it’s a worthwhile investment however and quite cost effective in real terms. I shall add it to my next order.

Thanks again!


I only use it with my film / paper developers and some other alt processes items and it's surprising how long a can of gas can last. Definitely worth doing for peace of mind with your film developer.

Neil.

Michael
3rd November 2019, 02:51 PM
Apologies for prolonging the Protectan side-issue on this thread; but here are two quotations from the instructions on a two year old can:

"Within about 5s 250 ml of air are expelled" i.e. replaced by gas

"Content is sufficient to expel 100 litres of air"

Not exactly definitive; but a bit of a guide to use. I find that, as long as my developer bottle is kept upright in between uses (so the gas stays covering the concentrate), I don't need to be too fussy about exactly how long to propel gas into the bottle.

DaveInElland
3rd November 2019, 06:20 PM
Apologies for prolonging the Protectan side-issue on this thread; but here are two quotations from the instructions on a two year old can:

"Within about 5s 250 ml of air are expelled" i.e. replaced by gas

"Content is sufficient to expel 100 litres of air"

Not exactly definitive; but a bit of a guide to use. I find that, as long as my developer bottle is kept upright in between uses (so the gas stays covering the concentrate), I don't need to be too fussy about exactly how long to propel gas into the bottle.

Presumably Michael, as the gas is heavier than the air you only need sufficient to cover the surface of the liquid as any air above the gas isn’t going to affect the liquid anyway? Out of curiosity (I could wait until my can arrives) is the gas visible to the naked eye?

Michael
3rd November 2019, 07:27 PM
Yes, Dave, that was basically the point of my last comment - you don't need to expel all the air. It's not clear to me, though, whether the gas is completely stable.

No, it's not visible as such; but you can see atmospheric vibration where it's present.

DaveInElland
3rd November 2019, 08:01 PM
Yes, Dave, that was basically the point of my last comment - you don't need to expel all the air. It's not clear to me, though, whether the gas is completely stable.

No, it's not visible as such; but you can see atmospheric vibration where it's present.

Thanks as always Michael!