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alexmuir
27th December 2019, 06:15 PM
I’ve just bought one of these Russian rangefinders. It seems to be in fairly good condition. There are a couple of things,however,I’m not sure about. I took the lens off to check it was clean inside. When I put it back on, it was a bit stiff towards the end of its travel, as if the mount threads may be damaged. It may be the rear of the lens engaging with the rangefinder cam, but I’m not sure. When the lens is tightened, the focusing index line is to the left of centre when you look down on it. It would be at the one o’clock position when viewed from the front. Is this normal? I would have expected it to be at 12 o’clock, and wondered if the mount had been removed, and replaced in the wrong position.
Finally, the instructions about rewinding the film refer to turning the collar around the shutter release to the left until it reaches a stop, before you rewind. I couldn’t find a stop on mine.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Alex


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John King
27th December 2019, 08:03 PM
I don't know about the rewind problem you seem to have, but looking at the index mark it is usually off centre. The Russian method is usually to have a wedge shaped shoe for the rear of the lens to contact and make the rangefinder move. Others such as Leica and Canon use a wheel instead of the wedge to do the same job.

One thing to look for on the wedge is that the wedge cam riveted onto the internal operating arm. This must be fixed securely and not move on the rivet or it will give false readings.

I have had a number of 39mm screw thread Russian cameras and they all mounted the lenses off centre. this was the standard, tele and w/angle lenses too. The difference between getting them dead centre and slightly off centre will not make a slightest bit of difference. When you think about it, the lens and lens mount is machined to butt up together when fitted, and that cannot alter unless extremely worn.

If they did not butt up together that is a different matter! It will mean the cam on the back of the lens is against the cam wedge but that is stuck. This also a problem if you try to use a Leica lens on a Russian R/F camera, they will occasionally jam up solid and can knock the wedge out of position

I even had a Leica 3F and a standard Elmar 50mm/F3.5 and that too was off centre so I don't think you have a problem.

Richard Gould
27th December 2019, 08:12 PM
I had a Zorki 4 a while ago, and certainly the focus index line is at 12 0clock, and the lens should go on smothly, no tightining up as it gets to the end,There should be a collor around the lens to release the film for re winding, and should turn to the left untill it stops, you won'd find a stop marked on the top plate, you just turn it untill it stops, If you get a good one they can take great photos, the lenses are often superb, I have russian lenses om my Leica's and they are good indeed, but the thing that can let the Zorki's down is the shutter.s, the Zorki 4 can be lazy at slow speeds, and I have a Zorki The original copy of the Leica, that the instructions say do not use in tempertures below 7 as the shutter will not work, but whenthe work they are good cameras
Richard

alexmuir
27th December 2019, 09:31 PM
Thanks John and Richard. I’ve sorted the rewind problem. The shutter seems to work as it should. I’m going to test the accuracy of the rangefinder in daylight tomorrow, and I’ll have a look at the cam to make sure it is secure. I think the rangefinder may need some adjustment, but I’ll wait and see. Will report back after the test.
Alex


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John King
27th December 2019, 10:51 PM
Thanks John and Richard. I’ve sorted the rewind problem. The shutter seems to work as it should. I’m going to test the accuracy of the rangefinder in daylight tomorrow, and I’ll have a look at the cam to make sure it is secure. I think the rangefinder may need some adjustment, but I’ll wait and see. Will report back after the test. Alex Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


To avoid any risk of poor rangefinder adjustment disguising itself as camera shake, it would be highly advisable to put the camera on a tripod and use a cable release or the self timer.

I don't know if it is still valid (and I have no reason it isn't) the optimum distance to photograph an object to confirm the accuracy of the rangefinder is/was 50 x the focal length of the lens. In the case of the standard lens of 50mm this is 2,500mm or 2.5 meters.

This formula was in a 1950's Leica manual and was the distance that all Leitz lenses were collimated at to give their best performance, so it would be a good starting point. It would be interesting to hear you results.
Good luck

alexmuir
27th December 2019, 10:54 PM
Thanks, John. I will use your suggestions tomorrow and report back. I’m hoping it doesn’t need any adjustment, but time will tell
Alex


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John King
27th December 2019, 11:04 PM
I have just done a search for lens collimation on the webb and come up with the distance of 1.25m which is half of what the Leica book suggests, but these were from tests on modern F1.4/50mm Nikon/Cannon/Pentax AF lenses.

They used a steel ruler with clear divisional markings in cm's with the ruler secured at an angle of 45 degrees pointing towards the camera with the focussing point in the centre of the ruler which is the 1.25cm distance. As your lens is an older type I would do the test as Leitz suggests at 2.5m as well as the 1.25m distance.

Oh yes they were all tested at full aperture which makes sense too.

It would be pointless doing one at infinity, say over 50m, because depth of field would probably disguise any error, even at F2

alexmuir
28th December 2019, 05:40 PM
Well, I managed to set the rangefinder using information from a FADU thread about this camera, and some other material online. The camera has, however, developed another issue, and will have to go back to the shop.
Recently, I’ve found that buying older cameras can be very frustrating. Some work, but many don’t. I’m going through a bad spell as far as finding the the working examples.
I do like the look of the Zorki, and will keep searching for a good one. There is an eBay seller who has several advertised as serviced. May be worth a try...
Alex.


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Richard Gould
28th December 2019, 06:03 PM
Well, I managed to set the rangefinder using information from a FADU thread about this camera, and some other material online. The camera has, however, developed another issue, and will have to go back to the shop.
Recently, I’ve found that buying older cameras can be very frustrating. Some work, but many don’t. I’m going through a bad spell as far as finding the the working examples.
I do like the look of the Zorki, and will keep searching for a good one. There is an eBay seller who has several advertised as serviced. May be worth a try...
Alex.


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I believe that there is a place that sells fully serviced russian cameras, sadly I can't think of the name right now, but try googling Zorki and you may find them, I think it is in Russia, and he also repairs zorki and other FSU cameras, but buying FSU cameras is very much of a lottery, as the QC of Russian cameras was not tht good, I have had a couple of Zorki's that were only fit for the bin, they were very cheap, and nasty, I have also had a couple of FED's that work fine, and an early Kiev that also works fine, I thinkthe early Kiev's were the cream of the FSU cameras, but with Zorki/fed if you get a good one it is very good, get a bad one and it is bad, Shutters were always a problem with Zorki's, they are fairly simple but can give a lot of problems, for instance the Zorki 4 shutters have a habit of being lazy, where the second curtain seems to stick, sometimes working them a number of times will get them going again, but if you have a warrenty then maybe sending it back is the best thing, good luck either way, just thinking I think that I remember the name Oleg as the guy that sells and services the FSU cameras and is pretty well thought of,
Richard

EdmundH
29th December 2019, 09:04 AM
These cameras suffer from dried out lubricant so can probably never be relied upon without servicing (unlike Japanese cameras). I've had a kiev 4M and a Zenit EM serviced by Oleg - https://www.okvintagecamera.com. They now work perfectly and take really nice pictures.

For the record, I have tried servicing a Zorki 4 myself, but the critical area relating to sluggish low speed operation appeared to be inside the shutter drum, which from bitter experience I wasn't prepared to dismantle!

Lostlabours
29th December 2019, 09:22 AM
Time I repaired my two Zorki 4 cameras, I've 4 50mm f2 Jupiter lenses :D

Can't be difficult I serviced a Leica IIIa 45 years ago . . . . . . . . and it still works !

Ian

alexmuir
30th December 2019, 07:18 PM
Thanks for all the helpful replies. The place Edmund mentioned looks very interesting.
I took the original camera back today and, as luck would have it, the shop had another one. I’m using the original lens on it, so the focus index is again around one o’clock, but it’s focussed distance matches between rangefinder and lens. I’ve put a film in this evening and will try it out tomorrow. Fingers crossed!!
Alex


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DaveInElland
3rd January 2020, 06:49 PM
Thanks for all the helpful replies. The place Edmund mentioned looks very interesting.
I took the original camera back today and, as luck would have it, the shop had another one. I’m using the original lens on it, so the focus index is again around one o’clock, but it’s focussed distance matches between rangefinder and lens. I’ve put a film in this evening and will try it out tomorrow. Fingers crossed!!
Alex


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... did the finger crossing work Alex? :)

alexmuir
3rd January 2020, 07:05 PM
Hi, Dave!
I ran a bulk length of HP5 through it, and processed the film yesterday. The negatives are quite dense, suggesting over exposure. The logical conclusion would be that the shutter is running slow, but the lighting was typical winter sun, so very contrasty, and difficult to meter.
The slow speeds seem fine, and the faster speeds certainly sound as if they are ok, but I’ll need to try some more film. I was rating the HP5 at 250, which is only 2/3 of a stop away from the rated speed. The negatives were, however, a bit more dense than 2/3 of a stop over.
The focus index is again off centre, but the camera focuses as it should.
These cameras were available new when I was at school, but despite being affordable, I never fancied them. Having seen and held one, however, they have a nice feel. I’ve ordered another couple of bodies from eBay sellers, and hope to end up with a usable outfit. I’ll try another film in this one tomorrow, sticking to more controlled lighting, and report back.
Alex


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DaveInElland
3rd January 2020, 07:42 PM
Cheers Alex, I was very tempted by a couple of these last year but ended up buying a few 120 folders instead.

The Director of Finance has decreed that I need to sell some cameras before I buy anything else in 2020 so I’m probably going to be vicariously enjoying other peoples’ purchases for the next few months.

I shall watch progress with interest therefore :D

skellum
4th January 2020, 12:12 PM
Hi Alex.
I've been using a Zorki 4 on-and-off for the last 18 months or so.
Build quality is actually much better than I had expected. I'll have to go remind myself but I think the focus index on mine is at the top, not off-centre. I'll look when I get home.
Exposure is consistent with my other cameras; I use the same Sekonic meter with my other unmetered cameras (C330S, Horizon) and HP5 at 200 produces similar negs in all of them. You may indeed have a slow shutter in your particular body, but is you combination of film/dev/EI and meter tried and tested in another camera?
It's a shame we all have modern flat screen TVs- it seems you could could get an idea of shutter performance by photographing an old-fashioned CRT telly-
https://petapixel.com/2011/11/30/test-the-shutter-speed-of-your-camera-using-a-tv-or-monitor/

I like my Zorki very much, and tend to use it without a meter to hone my Sunny 16 skills. Unfortunately for me,I wear spectacles. With glasses on I can't see the whole 'finder very well. Glasses off I get a full view, and can use the diopter adjustment to get perfect focussing. However, I also can't see a bloody thing around me!
The only other petty niggle I have with the Zorki comes after reloading, when the wind-on mechanism is a sometimes a footer to re-engage. The Shutter cocks and fires, but it takes a couple of goes to get the film to advance.

Ps- If you haven't already read this, always cock the shutter before changing shutter speed!!

alexmuir
4th January 2020, 05:30 PM
Thanks, Colin. I had looked back at your Zorki thread from last year for some ideas. I bought the shutter speed tester app a while ago, but have never had any success with it in its basic (audio) form. I’ve ordered the add-on optical bit that plugs into the headphone socket on an iPhone. I’ll see how it works when that arrives. It’s hard to tell if focal plane shutters are achieving their correct speeds without some sort of instrument.
I also use a small Sekonic meter for most non-metered cameras. It is working as it should. I had hoped to expose a second film today, but ran out of time. I do like the simplicity of the Zorki, but I know what you mean about the reloading process. The erratic operation of the mechanism seems to be a common feature.
Alex


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