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View Full Version : Phenidone off ebay no good or weak.


GoodOldNorm
30th January 2020, 11:53 AM
Mixed some ID78 last night. Used phenidone bought on ebay from chempl(964) 100g in Sept. 2019 .The developer would only produce a cloudy faint grey image on my paper. I added 0.5g of my old phenidone that I had on stock. The developer then worked as it should. Conclusion the phenidone from Poland is no good or very weak. I shall try another batch of ID 78 in the near future gradually adding the Polish phenidone until I get a print developer that works. I can not be bothered with the hassle of returning the phenidone. I shall try increasing the amount of phenidone in order to make the print developer work, if it does not work as it should I will bin the phenidone, lesson learned, buy cheap, buy twice.

Mike O'Pray
30th January 2020, 12:38 PM
Sorry to hear of the problem, Norm. It might be worth a note to the seller. If he is an honest seller then to save his business and reputation he may welcome being told of the bad batch.

I am beginning to wonder if the likes of e-bay is ever worthwhile except where the difference in price between recognised stockists such as those retailers and businesses in the U.K. and the e-bay seller is just ridiculous

Mike

Terry S
30th January 2020, 12:42 PM
You've made an interesting point Norm.

Like you, I buy (most of) my chemicals from sellers on ebay in Poland. So far though, I've never had any problems with any of the chemicals ordered. The only thing that went bad on me, was a bottle of Rodinal, which I've posted about previously.

Terry S

mpirie
30th January 2020, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the heads up Norm.

I bought 250g in October from the same supplier for my home-made Pyrocat but haven't tried it yet.

I guess there's no way to test other than to make up a full developer?

Will watch with interest.

Mike

GoodOldNorm
30th January 2020, 04:16 PM
Just made another 1ltr of print developer. This time I used 1g of polish phenidone instead of 0.5g. The developer works just fine. Next time I will try 0.75g . The polish phenidone is definitely not as strong as the stuff I bought from Silverprint many moons ago. I see Silverprint do not list phenidone anymore but Wet Plate Supplies sell phenidone 25g £11.99.

Mike O'Pray
30th January 2020, 07:02 PM
So at double the strength it works OK but you'll go through it twice as fast so it has to be half Wet Plate Supplies price to just break even. There is always a catch

Reminds me of an amusing tale concerning myself. Many years ago when I lived in Liverpool I got what looked like a great shirt in a box from a street vendor. I was even able to feel the material and check the collar etc and everything seemed perfect

However on trying it on I realised that while the top half of the shirt
was Jermyn Street the bottom half barely reached my belly button :D.

A shirt with about half the material needed:shock:

Mike

maltklaus
2nd February 2020, 07:09 PM
Thanks for the warning! Definitely something to look out for... I usually get my stuff from Suvatlar in Germany, might be a tad more expensive but he's "in the trade" and I've never had any issues....

Lostlabours
3rd February 2020, 12:01 AM
I have Ilford Phenidone made in 1961 and it's as good as fresh Phnidone.

The Photographers Formulary in the US had some bad Phenidone they supplied it as a raw chemical and in developer kits, Sounds rather similar.

British books say Phenidone has a long shelf life, US books a short shelf life. The British books are correct in my limited 40+ years practical experience with never an issue.

Ian

GoodOldNorm
3rd February 2020, 08:11 AM
Checked my old phenidone it works fine,I stated earlier that I purchased it from Silverprint, not so. On the plastic tub the there is a RAYCO lable. The Rayco chemical supply company closed down long ago, anyone remember when?

Lostlabours
3rd February 2020, 09:19 AM
Checked my old phenidone it works fine,I stated earlier that I purchased it from Silverprint, not so. On the plastic tub the there is a RAYCO lable. The Rayco chemical supply company closed down long ago, anyone remember when?

I think around 2004/5, I wanted to buy the company and approached Steve the guy who essentially ran it but it had been sold the day before. Essentially it was just part of s chemists shop who had taken over the chemistry side from the original owner Ray ? who's also made timers, analysers etc I think in Aldershot, the company was Rayco Instruments Limited

Steve said the shop's owners had run stocks down and need the space to expand the pharmacy side. A company in Birmingham bought it but never carried on trading. Essentially all that was left was a small dwindling stock of chemicals and a mailing list, the shop owners hadn't let Steve buy new stock.

I have a Rayco enlarger timer which I keep as a spare.

Ian

B&W Neil
3rd February 2020, 09:43 AM
Checked my old phenidone it works fine,I stated earlier that I purchased it from Silverprint, not so. On the plastic tub the there is a RAYCO lable. The Rayco chemical supply company closed down long ago, anyone remember when?


Yes I remember RAYCO and used to buy chems and items from them, in my experience they were a very good company.

I still have one of their small booklets somewhere that was full of hints / tips and basic forumlas to get you going with mixing your own brews.

Great shame they are not still arround, or something similar.


Neil.

GoodOldNorm
3rd February 2020, 10:26 AM
I think around 2004/5

Ian
So my phenidone that still works is at least 15-16 years old or older. I have kept it stored in two plastic bags with the air squeezed out. The bagged phenidone was then pushed back in it's plastic Rayco tub and stored in a cupboard.

Lostlabours
3rd February 2020, 10:56 AM
Yes I remember RAYCO and used to buy chems and items from them, in my experience they were a very good company.

I still have one of their small booklets somewhere that was full of hints / tips and basic forumlas to get you going with mixing your own brews.

Great shame they are not still arround, or something similar.


Neil.


I wrote an updated booklet for Steve a few sometime before the name & stock was sold. It was in PDf form not sure if I still have it. I have the original written by Ray Kingdon the founder.

Ian

Rob Archer
3rd February 2020, 11:15 AM
I still have lots of chemicals in Rayco tubs. They'd gone before I got into making my own stuff but I was given a box of chemicals a few years ago. All of it is still usable except a tub of 500g of sodium hydroxide which has turned to mush - I guess moisture got into into it. I've wondered about trying to dry it out in the oven but it's nasty stuff and I have a vague memory from school that heating it might change it chemically. Advice?

My enlarger timer is a Rayco that has been reliable ever since I was given it over 20 years ago.

Terry S
3rd February 2020, 11:50 AM
All of it is still usable except a tub of 500g of sodium hydroxide which has turned to mush - I guess moisture got into into it. I've wondered about trying to dry it out in the oven but it's nasty stuff and I have a vague memory from school that heating it might change it chemically. Advice?
All that I know Rob, is that it is nasty stuff - especially when heated in any way!

I'd dispose of it, as it's easy and cheap to replace.

Terry S

GoodOldNorm
3rd February 2020, 11:55 AM
Chempl (964) responded to my enquiry by stating that his phenidone is first class bought from a reliable source not from China. It is my fault that it is not potent enough because I must have stored it wrong and it will have deteriorated since I bought it in Sept. 2019.
Rayco phenidone almost 20 years old works.
Chempl (964) phenidone stored exactly the same way as Rayco phenidone deteriorated after 4 months.

He just lost a customer.

mpirie
3rd February 2020, 12:44 PM
Hmmm.....i'll need to keep an eye on my Phenidone too.....so he may lose another customer!

Mike

Mike O'Pray
3rd February 2020, 01:50 PM
Chempl (964) responded to my enquiry by stating that his phenidone is first class bought from a reliable source not from China. It is my fault that it is not potent enough because I must have stored it wrong and it will have deteriorated since I bought it in Sept. 2019.
Rayco phenidone almost 20 years old works.
Chempl (964) phenidone stored exactly the same way as Rayco phenidone deteriorated after 4 months.

He just lost a customer.

I take it that the first paragraph is the seller's statement to you Norm. If so it would have lost me as a customer as well.

Mike

GoodOldNorm
3rd February 2020, 02:09 PM
I take it that the first paragraph is the seller's statement to you Norm. If so it would have lost me as a customer as well.

Mike
His actual words : phenidone is unstable substance, it is possible that during half-year storage in your conditions it deteriorated. I only buy premium class compounds from my suppliers, with cetificates of quality and never buy from China.

In this case "the customer is always wrong" I see that this seller has quite a few negative fedbacks. He did not tell me how it should be stored, just that I must have stored it in the wrong conditions.

GoodOldNorm
6th February 2020, 08:24 PM
His actual words : phenidone is unstable substance, it is possible that during half-year storage in your conditions it deteriorated. I only buy premium class compounds from my suppliers, with cetificates of quality and never buy from China.

In this case "the customer is always wrong" I see that this seller has quite a few negative fedbacks. He did not tell me how it should be stored, just that I must have stored it in the wrong conditions.

Emailed chempl (964) and sarcastically asked how I should store his phenidone. He replied by saying that his phenidone is so pure that it is sensitive to temperature, humidity and moisture. He has to renew his stock every 3 months because it deteriorates. Still no advice on how to store it, but he states that his "pure" phenidone loses potency after 3 months no matter how you store it. So if you want super pure phenidone that you have to use straight away buy from chempl (964), it may already be 3 months old when you get it.

Have I been told "a load of old codswollap"? I believe so.

Terry S
7th February 2020, 12:10 PM
I've just read various posts, that say that each posters phenidone lasts for sometime years, with no problem.

Check out PE's post #2 from an older thread about it;

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/shelf-life-of-phenidone.33580/

Terry s

Bob
7th February 2020, 02:07 PM
Yes, this is clearly nonsense. He has decent overall ratings but his attitude when something goes wrong does not exactly inspire confidence. I don't buy such things from eBay, but it's a warning to others about this particular seller.

He could usefully take a leaf out of the Chinese book of customer service. I have never had a situation with a (legitimate) Chinese seller who did not apologise and send a replacement by return or a refund, no questions asked. Of course, this is just them protecting their seller ratings, but it works for the buyer too.

Also, of course, they often do not actually have stock of what they are selling and then can't find it at a profitable price locally to resell to you so give you a cock-and-bull story about how the quality was not good enough so they sent all their stock back to the manufacturer, or some equally ludicrous nonsense. They might insult your intelligence, but you will get an immediate refund! :D

Cheers, Bob.

Nat Polton
8th February 2020, 03:50 PM
I still have a couple of Rayco booklets.

Summer 1993 price list has Phenidone priced at
25g £3.32p,
100g £11.29p,
500g £48.19p.

I had a quite few bits and pieces from them.


The storey of Mikes shirt reminded me of a phone in on Radio Merseyside.
The chap calling in told how a couple of door to door builders advised him his chimney stack brickwork needed repointing.
He let them do the work and paid up.
It looked champion he said until it rained one day, and the lovely brickwork peeled off.
They had only gone and wrapped the chimney stack in brick print wallpaper.

Cheers.