Camera club conforming to the rules.

[Jeff Worsnop]

My local camera club has a lecture tonight entitled " Hints & tips Bob's way! What do Judges look for?"
Should I go and learn how to do pictures to satisfy the judges or avoid like the plague?
Cheers
Jeff

[Dave miller]

I should go, you will then know how to annoy "Bob" in future.

I once used to select my club competition pictures on the basis of the booked judges like and dislikes. That worked quite well until a church interior loving judge cancelled at the last moment and was replaced by a church interior hating judge. After that I took the advice to only submit pictures that please me.

[B&W Neil]

Avoid such advice like the plague and just get original and creative :-)

Neil

(ex judge with 25+ years experience at most levels !)

[Bob]

I would just like to register an official complaint to that club for using my name without express permission in writing from my legal representative (Grabb, Damunny and Runn, 101v Cheapside (above the chip shop, down the back stairs and next to the donkey abattoir) )...

I guess it depends on whether you want to win club competitions or not. Might be worth going to hear what they say - you can always ignore anything with which you don't agree.

[JimW]

Do you like your work? If so, then do you need the appreciation of some prejudicial person telling you what you a)already know, or b) something irrelevant? If you like it, if it does what you want it to do, then yar boo sucks to anyone else. As an amateur I'm regularly asked by my even more amateur friends to critique their work. My first question is invariably-do YOU like it? Then please tell me what you are asking me for?
As a professional (not photographic professional, but a professional printer) I have to please my clients. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant.
Whether Mr. Judge likes something or not is down to Mr. Judge. But he is not you, with your outlook, your hopes and aspirations, your standards, your belief system; so in short-be the best you want to be-you have to live with you, not Mr. Judge.
Um-was that over the top?:confused:

[Mike O'Pray]

Bob's Way! The title reminds me of betting on the dogs at Hall Green Stadium, Birmingham. I always used to bet using the resident tipster tips. He(maybe she?) was called Brummie but was never otherwise identified and I now know why. I am still looking for him/her but there's about 3 million possibles to go through.

At least Richard Kimble had the benefit of knowing his suspect had only one arm.:D:

Mike

[Les McLean]

Jeff, just go out and make photographs for yourself and if the judge doesn't like them that's his loss, after all making photographs is for our own pleasure. I took this view in my camera club days and when I lost the competition I quietly said to myself "the judge has got no taste".

[Dave miller]

Jeff, just go out and make photographs for yourself and if the judge doesn't like them that's his loss, after all making photographs is for our own pleasure. I took this view in my camera club days and when I lost the competition I quietly said to myself "the judge has got no taste".

I suspect that this is a sanitised version of what Les actually thought, :D but his sentiment is correct.

[Ian David]

I'm surprised that anyone goes to camera clubs at all - they sound like miserable places!

[Richard Gould]

Jeff, just take pictures that you want to take and that please yourself, be creative and enjoy your photography, don't fall into the trap that I did many years ago and take a photograph because you think a camera club judge, or any one else, will like it, that way creativity goes out of the window,Richard

[Jeff Worsnop]

Thanks folks for the advice. The question was rather tongue in cheek and
I didn't go because I guessed I would have heard it all before (thirds, level horizon, full impact in 2 or 3 seconds, simplicity etc etc.) The thoughts of learning how to gain points in an artistic endeavour didn't excite me.
I know I should trust my own judgement but have little confidence in it so I need help and guidance; which in theory comments by judges should provide but often don't.
The only informal critique forum I know of is Lancashire Monochrome but I felt a bit of a fraud in that I didn't feel able to contribute pictures or comment.
Something of a quandry!
Cheers
Jeff

[Dave miller]

I'm surprised that anyone goes to camera clubs at all - they sound like miserable places!

Only on competition nights. ;)

[Tony Marlow]

To start with, I think Les Mclean's comments are spot on but I do get concerned about how people seem to want to create ring-fenced groups to which you are either "in" or "out".
Life is not like that, nothing is just black or white. I don't think I have seen a print on this forum which is just Black and white, nearly always there is a vast range of greys in between. Camera Clubs are people and you get all sorts, some are bigots, some are well balanced some are obsessed some are open minded. You pick out the areas which benefit yourself and are tolerant of the others. If you are a member you have a voice too. It is like management, you listen to all the opinions, evaluate the content and make your own decision but still preserving a working relationship with the opinion givers. If we don't open our eyes and ears we end up in a cul-de-sac.

Tony

[Martin Aislabie]

To start with, I think Les Mclean's comments are spot on but I do get concerned about how people seem to want to create ring-fenced groups to which you are either "in" or "out".
Life is not like that, nothing is just black or white. I don't think I have seen a print on this forum which is just Black and white, nearly always there is a vast range of greys in between. Camera Clubs are people and you get all sorts, some are bigots, some are well balanced some are obsessed some are open minded. You pick out the areas which benefit yourself and are tolerant of the others. If you are a member you have a voice too. It is like management, you listen to all the opinions, evaluate the content and make your own decision but still preserving a working relationship with the opinion givers. If we don't open our eyes and ears we end up in a cul-de-sac.

Tony

Very well said

Martin

[B&W Neil]

I can remember a judging session I did some years a go when it so happened the winners were:

Mono prints: 1st - a silhouette image
Colour Prints: 1st - another silhouette image
Colour Slides: 1st - yet another silhouette image!

When I announced the winner of the Colour Slides (the lights were still out and the image on the screen) I heard a complaining voice from the dark say; "well we know what this blooming judge likes now don't we." I had a quiet chuckle to myself as the guy had it completely wrong - I didn't actaully like them that much but they were by far the best pieces of work sunmitted in their repsective categories and that's why they were placed first. About a year later I was invited back and presented with an above average number of silhouette images :cool: But on this occasion there were much better other subjects to place at the top :D

Neil.

[Mark Snowdon]

I think camera club competition tends to stifle creativity. You see it when new people join clubs. They come with fresh ideas but quickly realise that unless they conform to the rules they will never succeed in competitions. I rarely enter competitions now but when I do I often get low marks, especially if I enter a pinhole photo, “it’s simply not sharp” says the judge!

I therefore agree with earlier comments. Take pictures to please yourself and not camera club judges.

Mark

[B&W Neil]

I have had split toned lith prints on FB papers dismissed as; 'having a bad colour cast that could have easily been corrected in PS!'

Neil.

[Neil Smith]

I have had split toned lith prints on FB papers dismissed as; 'having a bad colour cast that could have easily been corrected in PS!'
'

Its comments like this (but at the time not about Digital) that led to me only being a member of my local camera club for 1 year when I was about 16, after which I vowed to never set foot in another camera club again.

Neil

[B&W Neil]

I had better not tell you then about the time I was asked to make a file of one of my 5x4 sun prints so it could be shown at full projection screen size through a DI projector ;-) I refused of course and unfortunately I was never able to convince the wise person i/c that it was designed to be viewed at no larger than 5x4!

Neil.

[Dave miller]

My local camera club has a lecture tonight entitled " Hints & tips Bob's way! What do Judges look for?"
Should I go and learn how to do pictures to satisfy the judges or avoid like the plague?
Cheers
Jeff


See what you've started here Jeff. :D

[RH Designs]

The thoughts of learning how to gain points in an artistic endeavour didn't excite me.

Camera clubs have more in common with sport than art :).

[Steve Smith]

Should I go....... ?

Only if they serve tea and biscuits in the interval.


Steve.

[Jeff Worsnop]

This seems to be going off at a tangent.
I had no intention to be critical of camera clubs by commenting about the title of last night's lecture!
Clubs and the people in them seem to vary widely, rather like, say, gardening clubs. The last club I attended regularly was full of very friendly people but held projected image and print competitions each and every month of the year. Competition marks and league positions were considered to be important. It was all too much for me.
However I have recently noticed a trend to fewer comps and more lectures but to neatly complete the circle some of the lectures, like last night, are how to do well in competitions!
Cheers
Jeff

[B&W Neil]

Getting back to your original point then :-)

There is certainly some merit in discussing or learning about how to present / select your images for competions. The rules of entry need to be studied and complied with ( just like our own exhibition!) and selection and presentation (mounting etc) are all important. For example: a simple thing like putting in three images of Derwentwater made from the same location would not maximise you chance of selection in a Lake District Landscape competion. Better to have your best image of Derwentwater and two from somewhere else in the Lake District.

Neil.

[Dave miller]

My club, East Midlands Monochrome Group, meets tonight for one of its periodic self-critique evenings which seem quite popular, and is about as near to a competition as we get. All are welcome.

[B&W Neil]

I think that is a very good idea as it isn't easy talking about the faults in your own work in front of the masses. I should imagine some intersting debates get started :-)

Neil.

[Jeff Worsnop]

My club, East Midlands Monochrome Group, meets tonight for one of its periodic self-critique evenings which seem quite popular, and is about as near to a competition as we get. All are welcome.

Sounds very much like Lancashire Monochrome.
Pity there isn't a Lancashire Multichrome run on the same lines -:(
Cheers
Jeff

[Richard Gould]

Would love a Jersey Monochrome runalong thw same lines,Richard

[Paul.]

At our club we have a few print nights where a member puts a print up and we all talk about it , what we as indeviduals like / disslike, this often leads to spirited debate from opposing views but has the benefit that the author gets 10 oppinions rather than the 1 of a judge, authors are of course free to disregard any or all oppinions expressed.

These sessions are invariably good humoured as are all our meetings, the members are there to inspire and assist each other, with ages ranging from 20s to late 80s a wealth of experiance is on tap drawn from many fields which makes it a well ballenced friendly club.

As for competions, it's a case of please yourself and IF the judge likes it it's a bonus.

Regards Paul.

[vincent]

To be fair to camera clubs and judges, they can be a good learning process in presentation and print quality which can assist many a beginner. The secret is knowing when to stop listening and follow your own instincts.

[Tony Marlow]

It does seem to be a bit of a bandwaggon to knock camera clubs. Yes there are some awful ones but also some good ones. My experience tends be towards what Paul has found. If you join you are a member and you can have an influence on how it is run. You take on board what gels with you and let the rest pass you by. As for judges, one judge, just one person's opinion; 10 different judges 10 different opinions, they will never agree. Who is right, who is wrong? There is no answer so why worry about, so sit back and enjoy the craic.

Tony

[SteveB]

I recently listened to a David Bailey interview. He commented that most great photographers take only one great photo and that he was lucky in that he had taken two. Thats only two more than me and I'm useless, dont really care what people think and my photos are crap. It doesn't stop me enjoying the work or company of photographers at the local camera club (or Wellingborough Arts Centre). Learn to live with yourself!!!!

[Jeff Worsnop]

I recently listened to a David Bailey interview. He commented that most great photographers take only one great photo and that he was lucky in that he had taken two. Thats only two more than me and I'm useless, dont really care what people think and my photos are crap. It doesn't stop me enjoying the work or company of photographers at the local camera club (or Wellingborough Arts Centre). Learn to live with yourself!!!!

Even if DB was not doing a wind up he seems to have mischievously left out the fact that he, and other people, have taken many very very good rather than great (however defined) photographs. If you like going to a social club with a bit of photography that's fine by me, and if you are not bothered about the quality of your pictures or are content to have settled at a mediocre level that's also fine by me.
Perhaps I should also learn to embrace mediocrity as a way to live with myself:-)
Cheers
Jeff