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outremer
4th April 2010, 10:52 AM
I was looking for an alternative to D76/ID-11 that I could mix easily when required and Xtol fits the bill since it can be done at working temperture. The formula which includes,

Diethelene-triamine-pentaacetic acid (DTPA) and 4-Hydroxymethyl-4-methyl1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone (Dimezone).

New window opened at Silverprint website but I am not sure what if any of their chemistry listed is the same or equivalent.:confused:

Are DTPA and Dimezone available anywhere?

Has anyone ever made actual XTOL as opposed to the likes of MYTOL for themselves? I can't find an answer to this anywhere on FADU so if it has been addressed before forgive me.

B&W Neil
4th April 2010, 11:08 AM
I think you will find it impossible to obtain in small amounts some of the chemicals Kodak use in XTOL. MYTOL seems to be the favourite alternative formula which can be made up from readily available chemicals.

see this link: http://www.jackspcs.com/mytol.htm

I have not made it up myself yet but I may do one day. I do like XTOL for Ilford's Delta films and find the XTOL 5 litre pack is good value.

Neil.

Keith Tapscott.
4th April 2010, 03:45 PM
I was looking for an alternative to D76/ID-11 that I could mix easily when required and Xtol fits the bill since it can be done at working temperture.

Are DTPA and Dimezone available anywhere?

Has anyone ever made actual XTOL as opposed to the likes of MYTOL for themselves? I can't find an answer to this anywhere on FADU so if it has been addressed before forgive me.DTPA is a sequestering agent and water softener, not a developing agent. Dimezone is a developing agent and is a Phenidone derivative. The other key developing agent in Xtol is sodium isoascorbate which is an ascorbic acid (vitamin-c) derivative. The problem with developers containing ascorbic acid and it`s derivatives, is that they can suddenly lose activity which Kodak seems to have found a way of avoiding.
You would probably better off with a simple Metol formula like D-23 if you mix from basic constituents or if you must have a vitamin-c developer, do a search for Patrick Gainer`s P.C-TEA formula. Better still, buy Kodak Xtol.

Mike O'Pray
4th April 2010, 04:46 PM
Paul It is particularly cheap at Agphotographic compared to most other developers especially DDX. Even allowing for patriotism towards home-based goods, when all the American users sing its praises, it does seem to be good stuff from all the comments.

Mike

Keith Tapscott.
4th April 2010, 05:43 PM
Paul It is particularly cheap at Agphotographic compared to most other developers especially DDX. Even allowing for patriotism towards home-based goods, when all the American users sing its praises, it does seem to be good stuff from all the comments.

MikeExactly my point. Xtol is sold there for under £5 and it makes 5 litres of stock solution. By the time you pay for raw components, scales and shipping etc, it isn`t worth the bother. Xtol is dirt cheap.
http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/kodak-xtol-5l-363-p.asp

B&W Neil
4th April 2010, 05:51 PM
Not only is XTOL cheap it is also a very capable developer. I have been using it since Kodak launched it and have never experienced any problems.

Neil.

outremer
4th April 2010, 05:55 PM
OK guys. XTOL it's dirt cheap, I get the message. But I'm looking at from the point of :

a) being able to recreate it for when Kodak announce out of the blue someday that it's discontinued.

b). Because I don't want to make up 5L of it and store it. They stopped the 1L packs because they weren't happy with the powder mix in this quantity (can't remember where I read that).

c).But mainly because I'm after a developer I can mix at room temperture in quantities I want without the heating hassle, ie., make and use is the objective.

Any recommends based on this criteria?

Paul

PS. Should have said, not liquid devs such as DDX.

Keith Tapscott.
4th April 2010, 06:04 PM
I'm after a developer I can mix at room temperture in quantities I want without the heating hassle, ie., make and use is the objective.

Any recommends based on this criteria?

Paul
Kodak D-23 (http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/kodak_d23.php)

B&W Neil
4th April 2010, 06:08 PM
I have kept XTOL in stock solution for up to 9 months with no problems. By then it has been used in my hands so I am not suggesting that 9 months is the max storage time. How many films do get through in say 6 to 9 months ?

Neil.

outremer
4th April 2010, 07:02 PM
I average 1-2 1L bottles of DDX per month. I just got some Prescysol EF to try but would love to be able to make dev on demand. I tend to hold onto films until I have several to process in one session, so I would rather develop them than let them sit.

Another developer I keep coming across online is FX-50 but no formula for it. Anyone?

MartinH
4th April 2010, 07:41 PM
I think Kodaks XTOL ticks all your boxes. Stock xtol lasts ages so you have developer on demand....but if its making the stuff up for fun is what your after then work away what ever makes you happy:-)

outremer
4th April 2010, 08:39 PM
I've just sat down to work out how much it would cost to create my own MYTOL.

I'll buy some XTOL then and find another cheaper home brew to play with.

Cheers

Paul

B&W Neil
4th April 2010, 09:23 PM
I would give the Prescysol a good try to see if you prefer a staining developer before making a decision.

Neil.

Mike O'Pray
4th April 2010, 10:07 PM
Paul Like Neil's point about Prescysol, you might want to give the packaged form of XTOL a try to decide if it is right for you before trying to make it yourself.

It would seem that if you go through 1-2L of DDX a month then the issue of the longevity of 5L of XTOL is unlikely to be a problem.

Mike

Argentum
5th April 2010, 04:08 AM
I would give the Prescysol a god try to see if you prefer a staining developer before making a decision.

Neil.

Freudian slip?

Argentum
5th April 2010, 04:17 AM
You might look at 510-Pyro too. Chemicals readily available, easy to mix up (needs some heat) and storage life is very long.

http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/article-stainingdev.php

Argentum
5th April 2010, 08:02 AM
quick calculation works out at about 17 pence to develop one 135 film in 510-pyro. Might even be cheap enough for mike:D

But only a marginal saving on XTOL

Dave miller
5th April 2010, 08:40 AM
SNIP

Might even be cheap enough for mike:D



Unlikely. ;)

outremer
5th April 2010, 10:43 AM
Cheapness is relative when you live in Northern Ireland (UK) since we still pay a premium for postage for no apartent reason. As with all photo rescources I have to factor in this cost. Silverprint helped a little by reducing its costs across the board especially when shipping liquids.

I've never understood why it cost more to send stuff to me in Belfast from London than the other way around!

Still, you all have convinced me that XTOL in the packet is the way forward and I will continue to search for a simple cheap standard developer that I can make up myself. 510-PYRO looks very interesting aswell.

Argentum
5th April 2010, 10:53 AM
Cheapness is relative when you live in Northern Ireland (UK) since we still pay a premium for postage for no apartent reason. As with all photo rescources I have to factor in this cost. Silverprint helped a little by reducing its costs across the board especially when shipping liquids.

I've never understood why it cost more to send stuff to me in Belfast from London than the other way around!

Still, you all have convinced me that XTOL in the packet is the way forward and I will continue to search for a simple cheap standard developer that I can make up myself. 510-PYRO looks very interesting aswell.

Don't know about silverprint but RK photographic will send small items via royal mail which is cheaper than standard courier prices avoiding their interntional rates. A 5L pack of xtol falls into that category I think. If they don't list it they will probably get it for you.

Dave miller
5th April 2010, 12:22 PM
Cheapness is relative when you live in Northern Ireland (UK) since we still pay a premium for postage for no apartent reason. As with all photo rescources I have to factor in this cost. Silverprint helped a little by reducing its costs across the board especially when shipping liquids.

I've never understood why it cost more to send stuff to me in Belfast from London than the other way around!

Still, you all have convinced me that XTOL in the packet is the way forward and I will continue to search for a simple cheap standard developer that I can make up myself. 510-PYRO looks very interesting aswell.

AG Photographic do not make a surcharge, in fact I think they offer free delivery to Northern Ireland on larger order values. Worth checking out?

Mike O'Pray
5th April 2010, 06:02 PM
Unlikely. ;)

Quite right Dave. After percepts' signs of a lack of faith in my resolute miserliness, it's good to see some support. :D

Mike

Argentum
5th April 2010, 08:19 PM
510-pyro can be diluted down to 1:500 so that would put cost down to 3.5 pence per 135 film.
Many a mickle maks a muckle:D

Dave miller
6th April 2010, 07:12 AM
510-pyro can be diluted down to 1:500 so that would put cost down to 3.5 pence per 135 film.
Many a mickle maks a muckle:D

I'm tempted to delete this post before Mike sees it. :)

Tom Kershaw
6th April 2010, 11:26 AM
Last year I worked out that buying packaged Kodak XTOL is equivalent in price or cheaper than mixing up Mytol from scratch.

Tom

Mike O'Pray
6th April 2010, 04:19 PM
I'm tempted to delete this post before Mike sees it. :)

Too late he's seen it!:D. 3.5 pence a film That must be unbeatable. Don't want to sound greedy but I don't suppose you can you use it as a fake suntan afterwards, can you?

On a more serious note what effect does such a dilution have on the neg and development time.

Mike

Argentum
6th April 2010, 04:22 PM
Too late he's seen it!:D. 3.5 pence a film That must be unbeatable. Don't want to sound greedy but I don't suppose you can you use it as a fake suntan afterwards, can you?

On a more serious note what effect does such a dilution have on the neg and development time.

Mike

http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/article-stainingdev.php

Mike O'Pray
6th April 2010, 04:52 PM
Thanks Rob. I hadn't realised that digitaltruth had such articles. I only knew about the developer/films table

Mike

B&W Neil
6th April 2010, 05:01 PM
Too late he's seen it!:D. 3.5 pence a film That must be unbeatable. Don't want to sound greedy but I don't suppose you can you use it as a fake suntan afterwards, can you?

On a more serious note what effect does such a dilution have on the neg and development time.

Mike


Before you get carried away I would check that out against Rodinal using the higher dilutions. Most Yorkshire men I know use Rodinal :)

Neil.

Argentum
6th April 2010, 05:18 PM
Before you get carried away I would check that out against Rodinal using the higher dilutions. Most Yorkshire men I know use Rodinal :)

Neil.

You might have a point there although I never heard of it being diluted that much.