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View Full Version : Auction: Lines & Jones 4x5 enlarger


Neil Smith
21st April 2010, 08:06 AM
There is a Lines and Jones enlarger on eBay collection only in the Manchester region, its cold cathode and has masks for 5x4, 6x8 and he thinks half plate. It come with a 150mm Rodenstock Rodagon lens which is said to be in good condition. Its got a buy it now price of £45 which the lens is worth easily on its own, might be a good buy for someone here wanting to get into 4x5 on a budget.
This auction has nothing to do with myself, and of course you need to check it out for yourself but it certainly looks a bargain.


Neil

Neil Smith
21st April 2010, 08:07 AM
Here is the link below

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LINES-JONES-COLD-CATHODE-ENLARGER-C-W-RODENSTOCK-LENS_W0QQitemZ290426338457QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Ph otography_VintagePhotography_VintagePhotoAccessori es?hash=item439ec23c99#ht_988wt_1167

Neil

Steve Smith
21st April 2010, 08:26 AM
I really want that but transporting it would probably be too much for me.


Steve.

Steve O
21st April 2010, 10:11 AM
I actually have this exact model in my darkroom and it's a great piece of engineering. In terms of size it is remarkably compact, the same overall dimensions as my Magnifax 4 and the head is very neat for 5x4. The adjustments are amazing but can take some getting used to but once in place it is easy to use.
I picked mine up for free with a 150mm EL Nikkor and even though I don't shoot 5x4 now there's no way I'd give it up. They date from the sixties and L&J gave up making them soon after to focus on high end kitchen equipment.

It is well worth the asking price if someone is close enough to Manchester.

Steve

Steve Smith
21st April 2010, 10:15 AM
It is well worth the asking price if someone is close enough to Manchester.

I may have to see how much it would cost to get me temporarily close to Manchester!


Steve.

PMarkey
21st April 2010, 04:38 PM
I'm fairly local to Manchester if I can be of any help ?



Paul

Steve Smith
22nd April 2010, 06:58 AM
I'm fairly local to Manchester if I can be of any help ?

Thanks for the offer. I'm still thinking of options and if you picked it up, I would still need to get it from you somehow (unless you're planning an Isle of Wight holiday!).
Someone has put a bid on it though so the buy it now option for £45 has disappeared.

I will watch it and see what happens. I may go crazy and bid on it and worry about how to get it afterwards!


Steve.

Les McLean
22nd April 2010, 02:02 PM
Steve, I agree with the comments made by Steve O. The Lines & Jones enlarger is an excellent piece of equipment and was the first cold cathode I used and have been a great advovate of that light source ever since. I'd strongly recommend that you go for it, I'm sure that you'll find a way to get it across to your home. The bid is only for £5.

Steve Smith
22nd April 2010, 02:35 PM
The bid is only for £5.

Not any more!!


Steve.

PMarkey
22nd April 2010, 06:26 PM
Thanks for the offer. I'm still thinking of options and if you picked it up, I would still need to get it from you somehow (unless you're planning an Isle of Wight holiday!).
Someone has put a bid on it though so the buy it now option for £45 has disappeared.

I will watch it and see what happens. I may go crazy and bid on it and worry about how to get it afterwards!


Steve.

I was more thinking along the lines of picking the enlarger up and storing it for you until arrangement could be made to get it to the Isle of Wight :) If postage was a possibility I'm quite willing to box it all up and take it to the post office .


Paul

Steve Smith
22nd April 2010, 06:38 PM
I was more thinking along the lines of picking the enlarger up and storing it for you until arrangement could be made to get it to the Isle of Wight :) If postage was a possibility I'm quite willing to box it all up and take it to the post office .


Thanks. I will see what happens. There are four days left on the auction. If I win it and you could pick it up then I could arrange for a courier to get it and bring it down here. I think it's too big for the Post Office.

Watch this space!


Steve.

Bob
22nd April 2010, 08:28 PM
Why would someone bid when it was only £45 BIN?! Bound to go higher now, surely?

Ah well, good luck anyone here bidding on it!

Steve Smith
22nd April 2010, 08:53 PM
That what I was wondering. If you want it for £5 then you should be able to go to £45 and ensure it was yours.

I would have done just that if Paul's kind offer to pick it up had been made before someone had bid the £5.


Steve.

Mike O'Pray
22nd April 2010, 09:22 PM
It's the old story. If a BIN is a reasonable price and provided the collection logistics are achievable and in Steve's case this unfortunately was a big IF, then buy. If I had a pound for the number of times I've seen no bids on a reasonably priced BIN and at the same time seen auctions for the same kind of item starting at 99p and ending up appreciably higher than the BIN, I'd be a rich man.

No matter what the facts are in terms of prices achieved on e-bay, the "animal spirits " as Keynes said of the stock market take over and we cannot resist a "bargain". Usually a bargain which seldom is realised.

Mike

bill spears
23rd April 2010, 06:16 AM
If the 150 Rodenstock lens thats with it is good and clean thats worth £45 alone.

The visitor counter showing around 150 views with 3 days to go suggests there's alot of interest.

Pity about that £5 bid

Steve Smith
23rd April 2010, 07:34 AM
The other four bids are mine. The first bidder obviously put a £20 bid on as mine took it up to £21. I really can't see the point in trying to get something for £20 when you could be certain of getting it for £45.

I should have just bought it at the buy it now price and worried about it later. The worst thing that could have happened is that I would have paid for it but not collected it. In hindsight that would have been worth a £45 risk.


Steve.

Dave miller
23rd April 2010, 08:15 AM
The other four bids are mine. The first bidder obviously put a £20 bid on as mine took it up to £21. I really can't see the point in trying to get something for £20 when you could be certain of getting it for £45.

I should have just bought it at the buy it now price and worried about it later. The worst thing that could have happened is that I would have paid for it but not collected it. In hindsight that would have been worth a £45 risk.


Steve.

One of the draw-backs (if it is a draw-back) with this part of the forum is that it could well be another member who is also bidding for this item. ;)

mono
23rd April 2010, 08:31 AM
Yes, Dave, I´m astonished how open this auction is discussed here, as if no other bidder could read this here. I would have kept silent until the end...

Steve Smith
23rd April 2010, 09:00 AM
One of the draw-backs (if it is a draw-back) with this part of the forum is that it could well be another member who is also bidding for this item. ;)

If someone else here is bidding on this item. Let me know and I will stop.


Steve.

paulc
23rd April 2010, 09:33 AM
Must admit, I've taken to entering bids in the last ten seconds or so on stuff I'm after. Sometimes it works, other times, the bids go above my set limit. On auctions that have early bidders, the final price often goes beyond the silly mark.

I have me a 5x4 enlarger (got it with a BiN), so I'm not after this one.

Steve Smith
23rd April 2010, 10:28 AM
This one is interesting as most 5x4 enlargers in the UK still sell for silly money whereas in the US there seems to be one being given away on every street corner.

I suppose 5x4 (or 4x5) was a lot more popular in the US.


Steve.

photomi7ch
23rd April 2010, 12:29 PM
If someone else here is bidding on this item. Let me know and I will stop.


Steve.

Seeing as you spotted it first Other members should support you by not bidding not the other way round.

Mike O'Pray
23rd April 2010, 05:59 PM
Steve. Best of luck. I think that as it is local pick-up and a fairly big beast to either transport as one piece or dismantle and re-assemble then the bidding might stop at less than a ridiculous price.

I too have noticed this great disparity between what the 5x4s fetch here compared to the U.S.

Here's hoping that you get it.

Mike

Mike O'Pray
26th April 2010, 06:12 PM
Steve. Best of luck. I think that as it is local pick-up and a fairly big beast to either transport as one piece or dismantle and re-assemble then the bidding might stop at less than a ridiculous price.

I too have noticed this great disparity between what the 5x4s fetch here compared to the U.S.

Here's hoping that you get it.

Mike

How wrong I was. The bidding with just over an hour to go is £101. There are 3 bidders vying for it, 2 of whom have been there since the early days plus one "dark horse" who has just appeared. It has all the hallmarks of a bidding war with at least 2 bidders very keen and I don't think the "dark horse" has suddenly pitched in just for the fun of it.

Expect to see another flurry in the last 15 mins or more likely the last 5 mins. I expect this to hit at least £120 and £150 wouldn't surprise me.

It must make the seller think he needed his head examining for ever placing a £45 BIN in the first place.

It's an amazing place e-bay. A jobo tank magnet went for around £20 recently. SDS would have sold you two tanks complete except for reels for about the same :D:

Mike

Steve Smith
27th April 2010, 09:57 AM
Well, no one needs to pick this up for me! I was out when the auction ended and it got up to £107 which I think is still a good price.


Steve.

Mike O'Pray
27th April 2010, 06:24 PM
Steve I was wrong again. I was expecting at least £120. Usually when there are large jumps in price with a couple of hours to go, it is a bidder or bidders signalling that they will bid whatever it takes. It can have the effect of putting others off and if the price is still a bargain even with the jump it sometimes stops others in their tracks.

Hopefully another of a similar type and quality will come along. It just means trawling e-bay every few days unfortunately

Mike

PMarkey
27th April 2010, 06:37 PM
I have a De Vere 54 with a cold cathode head sat in the cellar doing nothing Steve if it's any use ?


Paul

Steve Smith
27th April 2010, 08:45 PM
I have a De Vere 54 with a cold cathode head sat in the cellar doing nothing Steve if it's any use ?

It's very tempting. What do you want for it and would it be possible to get it delivered by courier/Parcelforce?


Steve.

PMarkey
27th April 2010, 09:52 PM
Have to admit to having not gotten round to trying it in all honesty and Leon's description of the trouble he had with his probably points to this not really being worth the effort or expense Steve ?


Paul

Alan Clark
27th April 2010, 09:59 PM
Paul,

I might be interested if Steve wasn't. But I would like Steve to have first choice, since you offered it to him.

Alan

Dave miller
28th April 2010, 05:56 AM
The only problem wth the devere cold cathode light source is it is terrible with MG filters and really needs to be left on constantly to get a reliably consistent exposure times. I bought one a while ag and hardly ever use it for this reason. I just couldn't get any decent contrast, even at grade 5 from negs that with my varicon head print at grade 2.

I have read that a cold cathode requires a higher contrast negative to get the best out of that type of light source.

Steve Smith
28th April 2010, 08:04 AM
Have to admit to having not gotten round to trying it in all honesty and Leon's description of the trouble he had with his probably points to this not really being worth the effort or expense Steve ?

I am interested even if I don't use the cold light source. For a while I have had plans to make an enlarger with an LED light source and I do have the LED PCB to make this so adapting an existing enlarger would be much easier than building the whole thing.

If you want to exchange information on this further my e-mail is steve.smith.stuff(at)gmail.com or continue in this thread. Either way is fine for me.


Steve.

Dave miller
28th April 2010, 08:07 AM
you are absolutely right there Dave, and perhaps I should have clarified things a bit:

I found the Devere head in particular has a very strong colour to the light that interferes with the MG filtration leaving it virtually impossible to use multigrade papers effectively - especially if you print like me using the grades to control contrast rather than exact negative contrast control as per zone system methods. It is great for graded papers though.

the issue regarding consistency could be solved using a timer that compensates for the fluctuating light levels (like and RH designs one) or by leaving the enlarger on all the time and using Andrew Sanderson's method of metronome timing.

I found that the fluctations were really severe (on the devere!) - especially if my darkroom was below 20 degrees c so I gave up using it. I did ask if Devere (Odyssey) had a filter or more neutral light source, but they said these werent available.

One other thing with this head is the colour of the light makes it really difficult to see the image on the baseboard.

Of course, it is possible that my head is defective (and the enlarger one too ;)) - but I have heard of others experiencing similar problems. I'm sure Les MacLean said he used one for a short while but it ended up on the tip (correct me if I'm wrong) because he had problems achieving softer grades. that said, I know Ian Grant said he used one for years and found it perfectly fine.

It certainly doesnt give me the options I am used to when using my varicon head and mg papers.

Thanks. Les uses split-grade printing rather than MG filters for contrast control, so the light colour is not a problem with that method.

RH Designs
28th April 2010, 09:37 AM
Les uses split-grade printing rather than MG filters for contrast control, so the light colour is not a problem with that method.

It is when the light is very blue, as the DeVere Cathomag is. You can't get the soft end of the multigrade range without a lot of extra yellow filtration, whether you use split or single filter printing. I had a customer with one of these some years ago - exposure times were very short but the very dim blue light made focusing difficult. These heads only really work well with graded paper.

Dave miller
28th April 2010, 10:34 AM
I've found the quote from Les - it's from the "other" site in 2006:



The only option for MG control on a cathomag head is with MG filters.

link to thread: Here (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/32186-cathomag-head.html)

Thanks for clarifying that. :)

Mike O'Pray
28th April 2010, 04:39 PM
I wonder if the successful bidder knows all of the above. "Should have gone to FADU" to borrow a famous advert for the visually challenged. :D:

Mike

paulc
28th April 2010, 08:20 PM
There is another enlarger currently listed - A DeVere 507 with a Cathomag head, but no lenses or masks. Might be worth a punt for someone in the area. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320522815685

paulmcnally
3rd May 2010, 03:48 PM
Hi,
I noticed this thread through google and joined the group. I actually bought this enlarger in the ebay auction that you mention. The bloke who is selling it has another enlarger for sale, the details are below.

Durst Pavelle 400. It has a revolving lens turret, an extractor for the head, (to get rid of the heat), a dedicated timer/power regulator, a 150mm lens, a colour head with additional filter drawer (for multigrade), a set of multigrade filters, two neg carriers with all inserts from 5X4 down to 35mm and a built in totally adjustable baseboard. There are one or two other bits and bobs that go with it, like a special sunken lens mount for certain lenses. So, yes, let the chaps know its up for grabs, but its pick up only and they will need an estate car at least. (I got it in the back of a Toyota corrolla estate. (it all comes to pieces).

His email is darkroomgenie@hotmail.co.uk and the name is Dave Whitehead. I haven't seen the enlarger, but given the state of the Lines and Jones, he does take care of his equipment.

Oh - the durst is 7 ft tall and floor standing. ;-)

Apologies if this is not the appropriate place - it's not really an advert just letting you know it's available before it goes on ebay - I don't have any other information on the enlarger.

Paul

Bob
7th May 2010, 03:10 PM
Thank's for the heads-up Paul re' the Durst Pavelle 400 (never heard of it myself, but nothing new there...).

Hope you enjoy your Lines & Jones (which I had also never heard of - I think we can see a theme developing here :) ).

Cheers, Bob.

paulmcnally
10th May 2010, 08:50 AM
The lines and Jones is absolutely fantastic. Not the usual howitzer of a 5x4 enlarger such as an omega that I have used in the past - takes up no more space than medium format and the light source doesn't seem unduly blue, i.e. works with multigrade filters.

quite long exposure times - a minute for a 10*8 stopped down one; but it's not a race is it?

I am a happy bunny - although remembering how to print really well after 12 years is a bit tricky, or maybe I just wasn't that good to begin with. :-)

If you come across one of these enlargers they are a really good piece of kit.

Steve Smith
25th May 2010, 02:01 PM
I have a De Vere 54 with a cold cathode head sat in the cellar doing nothing Steve if it's any use?

Just to follow this up, I now have the Devere 54. My wife has informed me that four boxes have arrived and are cluttring up the entrance to our house. I will have a go at putting it back togerther tonight.


Steve.

Steve Smith
25th May 2010, 08:20 PM
It turned up in four boxes today so I started to put it together when I came home from work. An hour later and it looked like this:

bill spears
25th May 2010, 08:49 PM
In the 1st picture he looks a bit sad and down in the mouth :(

les dix
26th May 2010, 03:38 PM
That was the enlarger (well perhaps not that very one) that I used to make my very first darkroom print about 15 years ago. It was actually the enlarger we had at my workplace and I had some fun with it although only with 35mm. After a few months the darkroom was converted into an admin office and I believe one of my colleagues got the enlarger as an unofficial 'retirement present'.

Les

Steve Smith
26th May 2010, 04:36 PM
And here it is in my darkroom waiting for its new light source. The LED PCB is at work but I was on holiday today so it will have to wait until tomorrow. It's even fixed to the wall!

PMarkey
26th May 2010, 05:10 PM
Looking good Steve :) , Just a shame about the cathode tube . In hindsight I wish I had removed it from the head and packed it separately :(


Paul

Steve Smith
28th May 2010, 08:09 PM
LED light source is fitted and it looks like this:

http://www.apug.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19195&d=1275076736

Excuse the colour of the digi-thing picture. The green and blue settings are really green and blue without the cyan cast shown here.

I would have made a print except I have no print developer!


Steve.

PMarkey
29th May 2010, 03:33 PM
Is this a custom made PCB Steve ?

Paul

Steve Smith
29th May 2010, 05:40 PM
The PCB comes from an LED stage light similar to this: http://www.avbits.com/acatalog/QTX_LED_Par_64_Can_Polish.html

I occasionally work as a sound engineer for a local company who also have their own staging and lighting. I repaired a few of their lights using LEDs from a spare PCB but got to keep the second spare PCB. I have been planning to try it in an enlarger for quite a while now.


Steve.