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RH Designs
23rd April 2010, 03:45 PM
I just received an email from Harman announcing a new direct positive paper which can be used in pinhole cameras etc., and processed in normal b+w chemistry.

Looks an interesting product - details here (http://harmantechnologynews.com/2IQ-4GVU-77VU59V96/cr.aspx).

Richard Gould
23rd April 2010, 04:23 PM
It certainly does look to be a very interesting new product indeed, somthing I might play around with, nice to see Harman bringing new products to the market, Richard

Trevor Crone
23rd April 2010, 04:35 PM
Thanks for posting Richard.

Will also be very useful for educational purposes in schools and colleges.

Miha
23rd April 2010, 05:25 PM
This is such a great news! Thanks for sharing it Richard.:)

Miha

Mike O'Pray
23rd April 2010, 05:53 PM
Thanks Richard. Looks interesting and it is brave of Ilford to create a new product which I would have thought of as being "very niche" so hardly viable.

Could this be the answer to printing colour transparencies in B&W? It doesn't mention anything about this but I cannot think of any reason why this shouldn't work.

Comments on my thoughts are very welcome. Thanks


Mike

darkclassical
24th April 2010, 02:23 AM
VERY interesting!! Thanks for the post Richard.
For some reason, I find myself extremely curious about how this stuff actually works.

In any case, I look forward to trying it out as soon as I can on my 5x4.

Bruce

RH Designs
24th April 2010, 08:19 AM
Could this be the answer to printing colour transparencies in B&W? It doesn't mention anything about this but I cannot think of any reason why this shouldn't work.

The data sheet suggests an equivalent contrast of around 3.5 - 4 which it might be a bit high for printing slides, but otherwise it should work I think.

TheoP
24th April 2010, 01:34 PM
I'll definitely be buying some of these, probably RC Luster, because I like the sound of it :|. Its sortof like black&white polaroid, but not. Either way!

Jacques
24th April 2010, 01:55 PM
This is some good news. Does that mean that I could buy some 4x5 sheets and insert them in my 4x5 film holders? My pinhole camera is a 4x5 Zero Image.

Martin Aislabie
24th April 2010, 02:06 PM
This is some good news. Does that mean that I could buy some 4x5 sheets and insert them in my 4x5 film holders? My pinhole camera is a 4x5 Zero Image.

5x4 Paper is normally exactly 5 inches by 4 inches

5x4 film is a little smaller - 100 x 125mm (3+15/16th x 4+15/16ths ~ish) for some historical reason I cannot remember :o

So you might need to trim a fraction off each sheet - which is do-able but a bit of a PITA

However, this paper might be cut to sheet film size as it is designed to fit directly into cameras.

An e-mail to Harman might be required to clarify the situation

Martin

Jacques
25th April 2010, 02:22 PM
I send an email to Harman to see if the 5x4 sheets fits directly in a film holder without having to cut them. As soon as I will receive an answer I will post it.
Jacques

Steve Smith
26th April 2010, 09:28 AM
5x4 film is a little smaller - 100 x 125mm (3+15/16th x 4+15/16ths ~ish) for some historical reason I cannot remember

5x4 glass plates were exactly 5x4. When film appeared, folded steel inserts were available to use film in the plate holders. The film has to be slightly smaller to allow the insert to be the same size as the glass plates as there are three sides with folded metal around them.


Steve.

Trevor Crone
26th April 2010, 10:29 AM
SNIP; I'm really excited about trying it out. the pre flashing sounds a bit tricky - I wonder if ti would be easier to do it in camera with a total diffusion filter on the lens/ over pinhole.

Leon, I have successfully pre-flashed in camera with the lens out of focus while pointing at a Kodak grey card. Make the exposure at zone 1 or 2. This of course was for film so you may have to make adjustments for this product. If using this method make sure you fill the frame with the grey card :)

Xpres
26th April 2010, 11:42 AM
This is great! I'm going to try some 5x4 and 10x8.
I was trying to figure out a way of doing an easy pinhole activity for some 'cubs' - soaking photo paper in potassium salts to make 'printing out paper was one thought - but this sounds just right.

Steve Smith
26th April 2010, 11:53 AM
The only problem I can see with in camera use is the image will be mirrored............ unless you make a camera with an integral mirror.


Steve.

Niall Bell
26th April 2010, 12:41 PM
Does anyone know where you can buy this paper?

I can't see it listed at either Ag-Photographic or Silverprint.

Niall

Michael
26th April 2010, 05:07 PM
I'm wondering whether allowance will have to be made for reciprocity failure - the data sheet doesn't mention it. Despite that, I have a box of FB coming too.

Barry
28th April 2010, 07:55 PM
Doesn't sound too promising Leon, I hope you can get control of it.

Michael
28th April 2010, 08:53 PM
I was stupid and bought 5x4; but it's no problem to trim by feel and I tried out a couple of sheets. They're drying now, as I had a political meeting to attend this evening and had to split the washing.

First impression, taking my very staight and simplistic approach to exposure and processing (spot metered over the picture area, exposing for my main subject and using a 90mm Angulon for maximum depth, stopped down to f8 and f11, speeds 1/8" and 1/2" respectively on EI readings of 13 and 12 - developed for 75 seconds in MG 1+9 and fixed very quickly because they tell you to :confused:) was of a very contrasty result, as expected from the literature. My first exposure looks seriously under (rear of my house, sky behind) and my second about right (daughter sitting on garden seat in front of house wall).

I think this will be rather good for contrasty still lifes, flower pictures and grainy landscapes - but my next box will be the size Leon chose and I'll buy more than one to save on the rip-off postage.

If these are scannable, I'll put up scans tomorrow. My scanner may chicken out though, I fear.

Dave miller
29th April 2010, 08:29 AM
As it seems to be aimed at pinhole camera use I think it should handle very long exposures without difficulty, otherwise it is failing.

Michael
29th April 2010, 09:56 AM
Here are my two first attempts from yesterday, as described in my last post. The foreground in the house rear view is all grass; and the house is knobbly red brick, as the second picture shows. I haven't cropped either sheet: the scanned images are reasonably near to the paper originals. I'm sorry I haven't got the scans' sizes correct: it's my fault through inexperience scanning to a particular output size.

I'm going to try green filtration next. I also want to try to match visualization to the paper's idiosyncracies, which may be tricky - my old extinction meter is going to have a go, first up. It's a Zeiss Diaphot from the '20s, designed for that speed film; so it might yield something unexpected and worthwhile.

Matt5791
30th April 2010, 01:56 PM
Does anyone know where you can buy this paper?

I can't see it listed at either Ag-Photographic or Silverprint.

Niall

It's available from us now - prices the same as Harman Express. Keep an eye on the website,

Matt

Michael
30th April 2010, 02:22 PM
As Trevor suggested, this paper will be useful for teaching school groups. I exposed 4 more sheets this afternoon, put them through the Orbital and was looking at the (unwashed) results, all within 20 minutes or so.

Leon is quite right about shutter speeds. My "base" exposure today was a second, going up to 8". The grass was far better separated from the brick wall at 1".

You know, this puts us back to the earliest times, with this paper in the role of daguerreotype (uncopiable, reversed image) versus negative. People will use the positive paper for teaching or a bit of fun; but it's not clear to me that pinhole photographers will flock to it.

Matt - if customers want to load this into 5x4 holders, you'd be best advised to recommend the size Leon bought - but check with him first that it's a good fit. Trimming is a slight nuisance, as you need to trim lengthways as well as across.

Martin Aislabie
30th April 2010, 04:48 PM
Confused, I went back and had another look at the Harman Web Site :o

The 5x4 Sheet Film size is only available in the FB Paper.

The RC Glossy & Lustre are only available as 5x4 Paper (which is of course the actual size of the sheet)

Martin

Barry
30th April 2010, 05:37 PM
the smaller FB size fits perfectly into my DDSs. Shame they dont offer the RC in that size too ... an odd decision not to do it I'd say.
Odd indeed!

Martin Aislabie
1st May 2010, 10:33 AM
the smaller FB size fits perfectly into my DDSs. Shame they dont offer the RC in that size too ... an odd decision not to do it I'd say.

The smaller FB size is cut to 5x4 sheet film size, which is a couple of millimeters smaller than 5 inches x 4 inches.

Martin

Martin Aislabie
1st May 2010, 11:36 PM
yes Martin, I know. that's the size I bought to use with my 5x4 camera. I was making a general statement about the odd choice not to offer this size on the RC paper base.

Does it fit under the film guides of the Darkslide OK, thought it might be a bit thick to slide under easily ?

No, I don't understand the logic as to why they don't to it the RC sizes either :confused:

Martin

Michael
2nd May 2010, 01:52 PM
Martin - It goes fine into the slides, even trimmed by feel as I'm doing it (I've made a stop for my lengthways trim but haven't bothered with crossways).

Like everyone else, I can't "get" the marketing logic either.

By the way, the paper seems utterly insensitive to IR. I know the data sheet spectral sensitivity graph suggests that; but I thought it best to experiment.

A Sanderson
15th November 2010, 04:29 PM
Dear photographer/Printers, i recently ran some tests on this paper (only just discovered the thread), and my results are here on my blog;
http://www.thewebdarkroom.com
I wasn't aware at the time that Multigrade filters could be used, so didn't test for that. Though I did manage to get the contrast down quite a bit by giving rather a lot of pre flash.
Andrew.

WillShade
15th November 2010, 05:11 PM
Very interesting.
I don't believe we can get it here in the US... bummer.

TonyMiller
15th November 2010, 05:44 PM
Thanks for the link and the article. I didn't have much luck when I first tried it but after seeing your results I'll retrieve it from the back of the fridge and have another go.

- Tony

Trevor Crone
15th November 2010, 07:24 PM
Nice one Andrew - good to read what you wrote on your website:)

Terry S
2nd February 2013, 01:12 PM
Resurrecting another old thread today. :)

So, any more bits of information to pass on or links to pictures that you have taken with this paper? Any pictures on the galleries on here that we should look at?

I too bought a pack or two of the 5x4 paper when it first came out, tried it briefly, loved it and then got so busy that it got put to one side... :(

Time I think that we all got out our unused and unfinished packets and did some prints with them for all to see.

Anyone wanting to join me?:D

Terry S

JKeys
2nd February 2013, 09:02 PM
Went through a phase of paper shooting Not pos but neg Then inverted through photoshop, Though noticed if you contact print em they lose abit of contrast (ilford multigrade, metered at about 15iso then deved by sight) also if the scene is to contrasty and youve over exposed you get the wavey lines due to it not being in the dev long enough (roughfully they take 10secs to dev ) http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnkeys/7989051862/in/photostream/