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vincent
15th May 2010, 09:25 PM
I have just developed 2 rolls of Delta 400 35mm in ID11. When I poured out the stop I noticed that it had turned dark gray . After fixing and washing I hung up the film to dry and discovered that the film in the bottom of the tank had only the first 7 negatives developed. The remainder of the film is blank except for the usual film markings. The top film removed from the tank is fully developed with all negs visible.
Both films were shot over the same weekend.
Any ideas ?

Mike O'Pray
15th May 2010, 09:46 PM
Vincent, it seems to me from what you have said that we can rule out lack of developer and exhausted developer.

If the films were shot in the same camera and the "good" film was shot first then it suggests a fault developed in the camera after the first film and prior to the eighth frame of the second. Wind-on slippage?

If it was 35mm and the camera/(s) was were SLRs we can rule out such things as replacing the lens cap after the first 7 frames then forgetting to remove it from frame 8 onwards. You tend to notice a lens cap being left on a 35mm SLR lens :D:

I don't know. These speculations make me sound as if I am beginning to rant but however outrageous these speculations are, somewhere in them or others that come up will be the cause.

If two different cameras were involved then I'd want to look closely at the camera that took the blank 8-24/36 frames with specific reference to slippage.

If it was manual or even auto wind and it slipped after frame 7 then the rewind should have been very short.

I am stuck for any more suggestions. Others might be more inspired

Sorry

Mike

vincent
15th May 2010, 11:29 PM
Thanks Mike, it was two different camera's but I did shoot at least another roll in the in same camera later that day and it has developed without fault. I'm inclined to think camera fault myself but not sure how?

Barry
16th May 2010, 07:05 AM
Its strange that the stop bath was dark grey, or is that the anti-halation backing colour?

I would tend to agree with Mike that it was a camera fault. Is the blank film clear or black? One would expect it to be clear.

Richard Gould
16th May 2010, 07:20 AM
If it was'nt for the stop bath turning grey I would have said a camera problem, but as to what I can't say, but we cannot rule out some form of chemistry problem,one of those problems that can have a lot of causes,and I am sure someone here will come up with the awnser,Richard

B&W Neil
16th May 2010, 07:32 AM
Sounds to me as if the camera's transport system took up the film for the first seven frames then slipped and the film was no longer being transported. This may not be a camera fault but a loading the film fault. Are any of the sprocket holes on the film torn ?? I had this happen to me recently with a Nikon FM :slap:

Neil.

Neil Smith
16th May 2010, 08:12 AM
Sounds to me as if the camera's transport system took up the film for the first seven frames then slipped and the film was no longer being transported. This may not be a camera fault but a loading the film fault. Are any of the sprocket holes on the film torn ?? I had this happen to me recently with a Nikon FM :slap:

Neil.


I would say it's not a film slipping problem, as if this happens the last frame exposed is exposed numerous times because for the remainder of the film, when you think you are winding on in the case of film slip (usually the most common reason for this is the sprockets tearing) the last frame has the last however many exposures rendering it so dense it appears black on the negs. The most likely cause is a shutter problem paticularly if as has been mentioned it's an SLR. Hold the camera with the back open up to a light source and fire the shutter going through all the shutter speeds to see if the shutter is working correctly, it's easier to see at full aperture .

Neil

Mike O'Pray
16th May 2010, 08:22 PM
Good point about the effect of slippage on the frame that never moves.

If it was a camera fault such as the shutter staying closed then according to Vincent it must have corrected itself as the next film was fine.

It might help if we knew what camera was involved. If it's a electrically operated camera on a printed circuit system then the worry is that it might recur.

If it's a mechanically operated shutter, is there any way that something can obstruct it from opening then that "something" is freed with no chance of recurrence.

Unless something emerges that explains all, I think I'd want a camera workshop to give it the once over. There's nothing worse that using a roll and not knowing if there are several shots not exposed.

Mike

Miha
16th May 2010, 08:37 PM
Vincent, were you using flash? Sync set to high would give blank exposures. Just a thought.

Miha

Neil Smith
16th May 2010, 09:22 PM
You can have a mechanical shutter have a fault that allows slower shutter speeds to work but faster speeds to malfuntion, I had a camera from a shop just off trafalgar square for £20 to go on a protest march that had this problem.

Neil

vincent
16th May 2010, 09:27 PM
The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that it is a camera fault. As I was using several cameras over weekend I didn't really keep track of the films I was shooting. The camera is my Nikon F100 and I don't generally use flash, I've checked the film and it is clear except for the usual markings and there are no tears in the sprocket holes.
I know that you can rewind in mid roll and it is possible that I may have caused this to happen without realising it.
If it happens again I will have to do something about it.
In the mean time thank you everyone for your contribution and advice.

Mike O'Pray
16th May 2010, 11:13 PM
Vincent, your thoughts on what might have happened with the rewind being triggered without you being aware of it would certainly reconcile all the effects you have described in reference to the film.

Simple answer -get a Pentax like mine. It is impossible to set the rewind mode off accidentally without a very fine pointed end such as a pencil or maybe a finger/thumbnail that has grown beyond the end of the digit and is a bit pointy. It's difficult even then. The button to be pressed is tiny.

Besides which it sounds like a 707 on take-off in mid-roll rewind mode so you'd need to be stone deaf as well :D:

Mike

B&W Neil
17th May 2010, 07:52 AM
That theory would fit Vincent. But are you sure you didn't activate the rewind thinking you had finished the film? You mentioned you were playing around with several cameras / films etc and you may have got them muddled up :confused: :shock:

Neil.

Richard Gould
17th May 2010, 10:37 AM
Vincent,if you triggered the rewind by mistake that would fit the bill, get an older camera that you have to rewind manually at the end of the film, No mistakes with those,Richard

Miha
17th May 2010, 12:51 PM
If the rewind is triggered the camera (F90 at least) will stop shooting as the the film door has to be opened first.

Miha

vincent
17th May 2010, 09:04 PM
As regards getting another camera I must admit that I never felt at ease with any camera after the Olympus OM 2n and the OM-4Ti. What I like about modern camera's is the auto focus and auto wind on. What I dislike about them is array of custom settings which I can't get the hang of.
I still use the OM 4Ti for my IR work and I consider it the finest SLR that was ever made.

Mike O'Pray
17th May 2010, 09:30 PM
I was only joking Vincent- well partly but see below. By all accounts the F100 is a superb camera with many even preferring it over the F5. I have often wondered about a switch to Nikon myself but it's good to know that accidental rewind may be something to be aware of if I ever did.

I must admit that the array of custom settings worries me a little as well. With either of the Nikons mentioned I don't think there is any question of picking them up and working out how to use them fully or maybe even at all without the instruction manual or "Hove guide".

The price to be paid for sophistication?

Mike

PaulD
19th May 2010, 12:46 PM
Vincent,
I had a student with a similar problem. I don't remember what camera it was but it had auto rewind and it would rewind after 8 to 10 frames. The camera had to be sent out for repair as it would happen on some rolls and not others.

Paul

vincent
19th May 2010, 08:33 PM
Vincent,
I had a student with a similar problem. I don't remember what camera it was but it had auto rewind and it would rewind after 8 to 10 frames. The camera had to be sent out for repair as it would happen on some rolls and not others.

Paul

Thanks for that Paul, I just hope the same does not apply to mine. I'll just have to wait and see.