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Neil Smith
27th May 2010, 11:30 AM
After attending Tim Rudmans Lith printing Workshop, I had my first experience lith printing in my own darkroom.
I received my Fotospeed LD20 last week and spent Sunday evening trying it out. My first attempts have worked out quite well, using Fomatone MG classic, certainly not subtle as others have commented on, but has interesting effects which would suit a number of subjects.
Sadly I cannot include images to go with this posting, due to the fact when I was scanning them, my scanner decided to give up the ghost, and I am currently attempting a repair. If successful I will post images later. But I had results ranging from a very warm orange/brown through salmony pink to orange tones. I was using 100ml part A, 100ml part B to 3800ml water at 30 Deg C, as it was my first printing session I had no old brown, but left the chemicals oxidising for 2.5 Hrs before printing and ran a few test prints through before a first print.
I am tempted next time to reduce the temperature and dilute less to see if this will calm down the quite pronounced colours, though I did think they suited the image I was working on. I put 8 prints through the developer and if you include the couple of tests about 9 12"x9.5" prints the last of which the colours were extreme. It would be interesting to see what gold and selenium toners will do to the colours produced.
It certainly helped judging snatch point, using the R H Designs safelight torch which I would say is invaluable with lith printing, and helped me reproduce images that were consistent with the adjustments I was attempting.
All in all a successful printing session:D

Neil

I have attached a preview scan which is quite rough and you will notice on the right hand side where the scanner broke and distorted the image, but I will include it as it's all I have till I can repair the scanner. Though you will have to bare in mind that this scan is far grainier, cropped on the left slightly and streched on the right due to the scanner malfunction.

B&W Neil
27th May 2010, 02:07 PM
That's a good start Neil and the example you have shown shows some good lith effects and looks promising. The subject is also very suitable for the lith print treatment. From my experience I would say your dilution is about right but I seldom work at 30 degrees. Mainly I keep the developer to about 24 degrees. Lith dev goes off very quickly in use and I usually ditch it after about 6 prints. I am not convinced about using 'old brown'. Sometimes I do and some times I don't ! On my last lith session I didn't and my best prints were the second and third ones.

Neil Smith
27th May 2010, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the positive comment Neil, I didn't point out that this was the first print and probably the worst of the bunch, I reduced exposure and snatched sooner as I had let this one go a bit to far. The contrast in the print is lower than it looks on my screen. I did 6 prints of this image and the last one was the one I was happiest with, except the colour was getting to be a bit too orange for my liking.

Neil

B&W Neil
27th May 2010, 05:38 PM
Neil,
As you know this is an unpredictable process, which indeed is its charm, so each session is likely to be an adventure! I usually aim to have at least a 15 min dev time but this is often longer. I also find that overexposed negs quite often work best. Don't ask me why! As a norm I try to steer clear of heavy brown or orange tones. Just my preference of course and anything goes that suits you. Have fun :)

Neil.

Rob Archer
27th May 2010, 06:20 PM
Excellent first attempt, Neil. I tried lith a couple of months ago with variable success. I strongly suggenst you try toning. The rusults I had with gold toner were beautiful. I bought a pack of 10 Fomatone MG sheets specifically for lith, so that will be my next project.

Rob

Neil Smith
27th May 2010, 07:40 PM
Neil,
As you know this is an unpredictable process, which indeed is its charm, so each session is likely to be an adventure! I usually aim to have at least a 15 min dev time but this is often longer. I also find that overexposed negs quite often work best. Don't ask me why! As a norm I try to steer clear of heavy brown or orange tones. Just my preference of course and anything goes that suits you. Have fun :)

Neil.

I too would prefer to avoid the strong orange tones so I will be experimenting to see what I get from other variations. And I will have fun when I get the next chance.

Neil Smith
27th May 2010, 07:42 PM
Excellent first attempt, Neil. I tried lith a couple of months ago with variable success. I strongly suggenst you try toning. The rusults I had with gold toner were beautiful. I bought a pack of 10 Fomatone MG sheets specifically for lith, so that will be my next project.

Rob


Thanks for that Rob, I will be trying gold and selenium to see what effects I get from them. Good luck with your lith printing.

neil

PaulG
27th May 2010, 08:06 PM
Good work Neil - a pretty good result for a first bash in your own darkroom. You'll discover that everyone has their own way of doing things - my preference is for more dilute LD20 than you use (with old brown). The orange that you get with Fomatone ("Fomatango" as RoyH of these parts calls it) is not particularly nice to look at in its own right, but can be a good basis for toning both with selenium and gold.

A good tip I was given is to keep the less successful prints and use them to play about with toning. Cut a print into sections and you can try different strengths and times for the various toners to get an idea of what the finished print might look like. I treat these test strips like a paint chart for toning so I can dial a particular colour in when required.

I won't even mention how much you can vary the look of a lith print by choice of paper... :D

Neil Smith
27th May 2010, 10:41 PM
A good tip I was given is to keep the less successful prints and use them to play about with toning. Cut a print into sections and you can try different strengths and times for the various toners to get an idea of what the finished print might look like. I treat these test strips like a paint chart for toning so I can dial a particular colour in when required.


That sounds like a good idea to me. Thanks

Neil

smaloron
28th May 2010, 10:16 AM
Well done Neil, welcome to the marvelous world of lith printing.
One trick you can do if you want to cool down the extra warm Fomatone is tu use a very dilute second bath of low contrast developer.

Neil Smith
28th May 2010, 10:23 AM
Well done Neil, welcome to the marvelous world of lith printing.
One trick you can do if you want to cool down the extra warm Fomatone is tu use a very dilute second bath of low contrast developer.

Thanks for that information, can I just clarify do you use the second bath after the lith developer? I looked at the lith prints you posted excellent and I see you referred to the soft dev method in the first one. I have some soft developer on order, I will have to try this when I get it.

Neil

Neil Smith
28th May 2010, 10:26 AM
Fixed the scanner here are the scans as promised

The prints are the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 8th print in that order.

Colours are more intense on the prints than showing on my monitor which is calibrated after upload, but they will obviously vary from monitor to monitor so you can take colours with a pinch of salt, but it gives you an idea. I tried to match as best I could before upload, and the files look pretty good but there has been quite a change after upload (colours less saturated and later prints a bit light)

martinb
28th May 2010, 11:02 AM
Neil,

Excellent results for your first attempt in the new dark room, I'm pleased to learn that it is now operational.

Have a go at toning, I bought some gold and selenium recently and have put some of the work prints from the workshop through them. The gold worked really well on the Fomabrom Variant paper although there are patches that didn't tone, the gelatin was probably marked in the mass of all those prints that were in the washer.

regards

Martin

Neil Smith
28th May 2010, 11:19 AM
Neil,

Excellent results for your first attempt in the new dark room, I'm pleased to learn that it is now operational.

Have a go at toning, I bought some gold and selenium recently and have put some of the work prints from the workshop through them. The gold worked really well on the Fomabrom Variant paper although there are patches that didn't tone, the gelatin was probably marked in the mass of all those prints that were in the washer.

regards

Martin

Thanks for that Martin, I have some gold and selenium to try, so I will be trying them first chance I get. It's great having the darkroom, coming home from the workshop I made myself finish even though I had a lot of work on, as knowing me it would have gone on another 6 months.
I really like the lith print you posted the other day ot works really well. I am going to try the Fomabrom Varient 123 to see how this liths next, and I might try the Nuance we used at the workshop, as I had some already.

All the Best

Neil

PaulG
29th May 2010, 09:27 AM
I am going to try the Fomabrom Varient 123 to see how this liths next, and I might try the Nuance we used at the workshop, as I had some already.



Make sure you have plenty of time to spare when using the Variant 123. :) It gives some lovely, griity results, but is very slow. I found dev times about 3 times longer than for something like Fomatone in the same developer.