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Fintan
17th November 2008, 06:18 PM
Not quite the usual question, what 35mm camera should I buy?

If I was to buy ten basic manual film SLRs for teaching people the basics of film photography and on a low budget :slap:

What make/model/lens would you suggest? I would want them all the same.

Barry
17th November 2008, 07:06 PM
Fintan,

Depending on your budget, these (http://firstcall.assertia.com/shop/categories/35mm-cameras/0/phenix/phenix-dc303k-cw-50mm-f17-lens/) may be of interest?

Dave miller
17th November 2008, 07:38 PM
Fintan,

Depending on your budget, these (http://firstcall.assertia.com/shop/categories/35mm-cameras/0/phenix/phenix-dc303k-cw-50mm-f17-lens/) may be of interest?

RK Photographic also do these, although I'm sure your local camera shop would like the order as well.

Barry
17th November 2008, 07:40 PM
Fair comment Dave

les dix
17th November 2008, 07:49 PM
I bought 10 cameras for training students on a forensic sciences course about 5 years ago. It was the Centon K100, a cheap imitation of a Pentax K1000 and exclusive to Jessops. They were about £100 with a standard lens.

The Phenix looks a similar beast. Incidentally I had to teach these students and hated it! I decided that photography is best left as a hobby in my case.

Les

Sandeha Lynch
17th November 2008, 08:30 PM
If it were me, I'd want to test out a theory ... buy ten decent lightmeters, all the same, and a dozen 6x6 folders (Ikonta, Nettar, etc) ... reckon you might get both better value and better results. ;)

Otherwise that Phenix/Centon (Cosina, IIRC) is probably the only serious manual contender.

Fintan
17th November 2008, 09:00 PM
Thanks for the info on those Phenix/Centon ones, they seem to have a good spec on paper anyway.

Would it be nuts to trawl ebay for 10 older classics like the Olympus OM1's, Pentax Program A's, Nikon FM's of this world.

There would be reliability issues on the one hand, on the other the workshop participant would be using a classic.

Can anyone offer an opinion on using some classics? I'm not with an academic institution so I dont have to justify to anyone else. Would using a classic have more credibility to using the Phenix/Centon type camera.

Dave miller
17th November 2008, 09:11 PM
Trying to buy 10 classics in good order, and of a similar type will be a nightmare of a task.

Argentum
17th November 2008, 09:29 PM
Would using a classic have more credibility to using the Phenix/Centon type camera.

Of course not. You will be teaching complete novices. Tell them what the camera is. i.e. A perfectly good but cheap camera which is capable of making excellent images if good technique and practice are used. A camera with everything needed to achieve exactly that.
A camera is just a tool and nothing else. Putting the best build quality tool in the hands of a complete novice will not magically make quality images with fantastic composition, perfectly sharp, great selective focus, excellent film development, stunning printing, etc etc etc. OM or Contax or Canon or Nikon are BRAND names, the latter two with with massive marketing budgets.
Teach your students about photography and not about brands.

And having 10 identical cameras will make life a lot easier. Just make sure the cameras have a truly manual mode. i.e. AE can be switched off.

Fintan
17th November 2008, 09:38 PM
Trying to buy 10 classics in good order, and of a similar type will be a nightmare of a task.

I agree. Maybe KEH would be easier than ebay.

Mike O'Pray
17th November 2008, 09:43 PM
The Ricoh KR10( Pentax K lens system) gets the best value accolade in the 1982 Good Camera Guide but as Dave has said getting 10 and none of them with faults on the likes of e-bay may be a tall order and take a long time. Some secondhand camera shops could and would come up with 10 good and fully working cameras but may be unlikely to have 10 identical models and the savings, based purely on what I remember of a local secondhand shop in Northampton, may not be that large compared with the £100 each for a brand new Phenix with a years guarantee, better range of shutter speeds and flash sync.

If the same camera for each student is important for teaching purposes and I can see why it would be, then the case for the Phenix is probably overwhelming.

Best of luck

Mike

Fintan
17th November 2008, 09:46 PM
Of course its not about brands Rob, you and I both know that. Sure you can teach people that when on a course. Getting them signed up on it in the first place is foremost in my mind and the thought struck me that using a twenty year old camera would be such a big two fingers salute at the folks that are constantly changing their dSLRs

Sandeha Lynch
17th November 2008, 09:47 PM
Only street cred, as some do say that old folders are sexy. :)

A Phenix costs £100, is brand new, guaranteed, takes different lenses and attachments, flash is easy, focus is easy, etc, etc.

But if you have a 6x6 enlarger available ... perfectly decent old folders can cost less than £30 each. For that price focusing is by guesstimating, exposure is entirely manual (none of that AE stuff). Lenses are good (even uncoated triplets are plenty sharp enough if they are stopped down) shutters and bellows are serviceable, perhaps by the students themselves. A nightmare perhaps, it all depends who they are and what you hope they might learn.

The reward should come through in the tonality.

Fintan
17th November 2008, 10:06 PM
But if you have a 6x6 enlarger available ...


I've 7 of them and two 35mm only (2xfocomat v35) one 5x4.

Argentum
17th November 2008, 10:13 PM
10 Holgas

RH Designs
17th November 2008, 10:16 PM
Ffordes (https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm) currently have 10 OM2's and 8 AE1's of varying quality, all well under £100. But reliability issues could be a problem in any 20yo camera. I'd suggest the Phenix as well. I'm sure you could get a deal on ten bought together!

Mike O'Pray
17th November 2008, 10:20 PM
Wow 7! If I had that many I'd keep the spanners that undid the columns in a Chubb safe to prevent the wife unbolting the biggest column and passing it across my throat at 3:00am.

Her defence would be: "Your honour his spendthrift ways left no money for shoe sales" A jury of 12 women would return a verdict of justifiable homicide.

Fill in your own variety of smilies

Mike

Fintan
18th November 2008, 07:09 AM
Ffordes (https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm) currently have 10 OM2's and 8 AE1's of varying quality, all well under £100. But reliability issues could be a problem in any 20yo camera. I'd suggest the Phenix as well. I'm sure you could get a deal on ten bought together!

Thanks for the heads-up Richard, I might drop Steve Byford a line.

Fintan
18th November 2008, 07:11 AM
Wow 7! If I had that many I'd keep the spanners that undid the columns in a Chubb safe to prevent the wife unbolting the biggest column and passing it across my throat at 3:00am.

Her defence would be: "Your honour his spendthrift ways left no money for shoe sales" A jury of 12 women would return a verdict of justifiable homicide.

Fill in your own variety of smilies

Mike


I should explain, I have 3, my friend Peter has 2 and the venue we use for workshops has the rest. But saying that my throat wouldnt be too safe either ;)

Dave miller
18th November 2008, 07:12 AM
10 Holgas

Go wash your mouth out. :p

thedarkroom
30th November 2008, 12:43 AM
Yes they are available from keh.com either as body only or in kits from $275. I actually contacted them recently about postage costs and was told it would cost $125 to post a camera with standard lens and strap to Ireland. I would expect that the cost would be similar to England. For ten cameras I was quoted $700. Also, don't forget that if you are ordering from across the Atlantic that you could be liable for extra duties and VAT for buying from a non- EEC supplier. Here in Ireland it would be an extra 33% on top of the overall cost of the purchase including P&P.
I've also been shopping around for extra cameras but they are like the proverbial 'hens teeth', impossible to find. We use Pentax K1000 for our course and wanted to keep them all the same to avoid confusion at beginner level. We could have gone for a variety of different cameras such as FM2's, etc, but we don't want anything other than fully manual cameras to make our students consider all variables (aperture, shutter, focussing, etc.) when learning to take photos. Students would always take the easier option if there was one available.
If you can find Phenix or Centon cameras then they would be the same as the K1000. We have our Pentax's for about twenty yeas now and are very happy with them. One criteria that we always insist on when specifying cameras is that they must be 'student proof' and these cameras have generally stood the test of time. We have lost some of them over time but I would certainly recommend them as being reliable and robust. They're not FM2's (my own favourite) but they're good.
Finding replacement cameras is difficult, getting replacement lenses is even more so. Note that new lenses today are built without an aperture ring as this is now handled internally by the camera itself so it's not something you can pick up off the shelf for any camera model. All the major brands have dropped the aperture ring off their lenses so you have to find replacements on the second-hand market. I think Tamron is the only manufacturer that supplies new lenses and these are the dearer f2.8 specced models. Anyone out there care to correct me on this, I would be grateful?
If you're looking for some cameras, then I would suggest that you put out a call on the forums for a specific model for the convenience of your students, or, if you have the budget, get in touch with keh.com. They are a very reliable and helpful crowd.

David

Ag-Bromide
11th December 2008, 02:17 PM
I suggest looking for 10 Pentax K1000 SLR`s with a standard 50mm lens each. These are all mechanical, manual exposure only, so they will have learn how to set the exposure properly. Check around various second-hand dealers like Ffordes, Mr.Cad etc.