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NStepien
9th November 2010, 08:46 AM
Hello to all,

This is my first posting so please bear with me if I don't get it quite right.

I was wondering if anyone has observations or a technique that works for them when spotting prints. I've read material on the subject, but struggle to produce satisfactory results. I am assuming that the aim is to have the spot virtually disappear when viewed at all angles, or am I expecting too much?

I've used Spotone with a very fine brush as well as the Tetenal spotting pens.

Thanks.

Neil Smith
9th November 2010, 08:56 AM
I have used a Paterson spotting kit and the technique I use is to start spotting with a lighter shade of tone than you need and build up to darken it till it matches the area you are spotting. Though I do spend huge efforts on producing photographs as dust free as possible and often the spot needing attention is very small, trying to spot large areas is very tricky, sometimes I would rather reprint.

A side note to this, I went to see an exhibition of Bill Brandt photographs and noted the spotting was distinctly noticeable and looked very amateurish, but from the viewing distance of the prints, you could not tell.


Neil

Dave miller
9th November 2010, 09:13 AM
Neil's advice is good, and I can only add that it is unnecessary to go further than disguising the blemishes, on the grounds that if you don't notice them, then you won't see them.

As a general point you can search FADU for existing posts that cover any subject. In this case if you click on "search" on the toolbar near the top of the screen and then type "print spotting" into the test box and click "Go", then the system will list posts containing that subject for you.

Why not take time to post a little about yourself in the introduction thread, others here will be pleased to hear from you.

MarkWalker
10th November 2010, 09:15 PM
Here's my tips, some of which you probably do.

I find one of the most important parts of spotting is to get comfortably set up - perhaps a stool at a table/desk at elbow height -and spend a fair amount of dedicated time on it, no quick fixes I'm afraid.

-Find somewhere well lit, preferably with daylight.
-Perhaps use a sloping board and masking tape the print to it to leave your hands free
-Get a large standing magnifier, or like me a large loupe on a stand (an old condenser lens could be taped to a homemade frame)
get some spots of ink (make doesn't matter, it all fades faster than the print) on a saucer
-Make sure your 00 or 000 brush comes to a point when only damp, or experiment with a tooth pick, for example
-Dilute the ink with a little distilled water and form a palette of shades; practice on the print margin to judge the tone with the minimum amount of ink the brush/tip will transfer - a 1mm spot could take a dozen touches, once your techniques right (fast but light touches) this only takes a few seconds
-Either use cotton gloves or a pad to rest your hands on, a pad like the car screen demisters makes a good support for your wrist.

-Try not to do too much spotting as it will become more noticeable. If there are more than half a dozen that really need doing I would reprint, best through a diffuser light source.
There is a lot more that could be said, I even have a 1940's book on spotting, but the key is patience and the knowledge that it's worth doing.
I have some Tetenal pens but I find the ink too fluid with a tendency to pool, I just can't get the right technique with them.
Hope some of this might help,
Regards

MarkWalker
10th November 2010, 09:21 PM
Forgot to add, as you didn't mention it, but this only really works at its best with fibre prints. For RC paper I've never got satisfactory results so can't advise.

Adrian Twiss
10th November 2010, 10:59 PM
One tip I read was that you only spot those blemishes that you notice in the first 10 seconds of viewing a print. This works on the assumption that if you don't notice them in the first 10 seconds nobody else will either. The only contrary point is if your viewer is one of those people who stick their noses right up to a print and scrutinize every square inch. Mind you such people are not really viewing a print. I have done this with prints that have been submitted to camera club competitions and up to now no judge as pointed out blemishes on my prints.

NStepien
11th November 2010, 08:37 AM
Thank you all for taking the time to reply and your comments have been very helpful. I have had the same "pooling" experience with the Tetenal pens and thought I was doing something wrong. I will work on perfecting the brush technique and only on fibre prints.

Richard Gould
11th November 2010, 09:14 AM
You can spot RC paper as easily as spotting FB paper, I use an old Kaiser spotting kit, which is water colours in black and various shades of grey in warmtone and cold tone,similer to the old Patterson kit, and I use it to spot FB and RC paper, with RC it is easier to spot the oyster or satin type, and with fb the mat type, Don't try and get rid of everything you see under a magnifler, remember that what you see in the first few seconds is your viewer will see, so spot what you see, and just try and disguise the blemish, not make it invisible,as long as it is hidden when looking in normal light it will not be noticed,if you look at the print under oblique lighting you will see the spotting whatever you do, but upright under normal viewing conditions it will not be noticed, and that is was you want, if the print is very spotty then I would Reprint, using difffusion, even in a condenser enlarger putting a diffuser in the filter draw helps,(I use a piece of ground glass) Richard

youngrichard
13th December 2010, 07:36 PM
As I was spotting some prints for Round 25 (my first time so I'm nervous), the better to choose one for submission, I wondered whether members seek eagerly to find the newest and best dye, or carry on using the dye they bought aeons ago? My wife remarked "I think you have had that re-touching kit as long as I have known you" which as it is 38 years is some time. Actually I think I first had a Paterson kit; I still use the Palette and box but the Paterson tubes of dye which, I seem to remember, were not very good, soon went; and I bought 2 bottles of Martin's dyes. The one I have left - still 2/3 full - is labelled Martin's Black Dye. Can't remember what the other was but I think it leaked or shattered.
The bottle I have left seems very well suited to Ilford Multigrade RC; perhaps I could get better results with FB, but I only want my pictures to last my lifetime, not a thousand years. And I think the bottle is at least 25 years old, and it is not going to be empty when I pop my clogs.
So my question is: Are those members responding to this post talking about the latest spotting dyes, if there are such things? Or the dyes they have had for 5 - 10 -15 - 20 - 25 years? If so what are they? Are there any new must-have dyes? Why does a set of Spotones on eBay fetch a premium price? And finally, back in the last century, why on earth would anyone sell a product for 2 or three quid that would last way beyond the buyer's lifetime? It's commercial suicide.
If any of my children were analogue photographers I could give them a legacy of the remains of my bottle. But they aren't; although they love my black and whites.
Richard

Dave miller
13th December 2010, 07:51 PM
I use Tetenal spotting pens, but have a range of Spotone dyes available. I guess they fetch a premium because they are no longer made, not sure why that should be because other makes are available such as Diaphoto (http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=671).

Mike O'Pray
14th December 2010, 07:24 PM
I have a set of Tetenal Pens and have found it difficult to spot Glossy to ensure the touching is invisible from all angles. I think the key is to stop before you think you have completd the job. The next day the ink seems to have been absorbed more and somehow to have got deeper in tone and spread better to cover the blemish.

However if the print is smallish i.e. up to 10x8 and there is clearly nothing in the neg to create the blemish then a quick clean of the neg and a reprint looks better and is often quicker.

Mike

Graeme
14th December 2010, 10:56 PM
Hi, I just use brushes and yes very carefully, dilute as described. I've used on glossy prints and must have been fortunate as I've had good results - though perhaps my expectations are as described previously - disguise rather than perfection? Good Luck.

Paulographic
15th December 2010, 09:08 AM
Someone mentioned Martins dye black something I haven't seen for many years.
An artists material shop offered me Ecoline liquid watercolour as a substitute some time back. It's made by Talens the Dutch art material manufacturers but this is hard to find now.

Paul

vanannan
15th December 2010, 10:49 PM
I am using India ink and gum arabic as used by Ed Weston,by varying the amount of gum it is possible to closely match the surface of glossy and lustre papers, I only use cooler toned papers, it may not work as well with warmtone.

Jon Butler
18th December 2010, 11:17 AM
I did in the past use Spotone but now using Marshall's Spot-All and they are excellent.
Spotting is seen by most as a pain but it must be mastered as it's a shame to see prints that need spotting or that have been poorly spotted.

I use a 000 brush or a sharpened cocktail stick and wear a pair of +4 specs when spotting on damp prints.
The damp print is first lightly spray with a mixture of distilled water / isopropyl alcohol and a tiny amount of photoflo, then dab the area to be spotted with dry kitchen roll and spot with dilute mixture of the correct matched colour, always use distilled water to dilute colours.

The procedure works for me on FB or RC paper.

Giving away my secrets JON:slap:

Neil Smith
18th December 2010, 11:55 AM
I did in the past use Spotone but now using Marshall's Spot-All and they are excellent.
Spotting is seen by most as a pain but it must be mastered as it's a shame to see prints that need spotting or that have been poorly spotted.

I use a 000 brush or a sharpened cocktail stick and wear a pair of +4 specs when spotting on damp prints.
The damp print is first lightly spray with a mixture of distilled water / isopropyl alcohol and a tiny amount of photoflo, then dab the area to be spotted with dry kitchen roll and spot with dilute mixture of the correct matched colour, always use distilled water to dilute colours.

The procedure works for me on FB or RC paper.

Giving away my secrets JON:slap:


Thanks Jon interesting method might be worth a try.

Neil

FrankS
26th December 2010, 08:30 PM
Forgot to add, as you didn't mention it, but this only really works at its best with fibre prints. For RC paper I've never got satisfactory results so can't advise.


Spotting RC paper is a bit more challenging, but it can be done. The trick is to spot the area, then blot up anything that puddles up. Repeat until you achieve the proper tone. It's a slow process, so have patience.

cliveh
26th December 2010, 09:17 PM
Spotting is an art and not something I am great at, but I have noticed how others achieve an effective technique. For a start this may be obvious, but cleanliness and care of negatives is most important to avoid the problem in the first place. However, when spotting never try to spot out the whole problem. It is a question of fooling the eye not to notice the scratch/hair or blemish when looking at the complete picture. A hair line for instance should not be completely spotted out, but by breaking up the contour of white the eye will not notice it as a line.

MikeHeller
4th January 2011, 05:26 PM
I use Martins ink for spotting that I inherited from my Dad so it must be about 50 years old!! Actually, I let some dye dry out on a watch glass and then use it with a fine brush dipped in tap water and slightly dry it out by wiping the brush on the side of a finger before spotting. I test the colour/dryness on the piece of paper on which I rest my hand to protect the print.

In fact the dried out bit on the watchglass must be about 10 years old!! I can't remember when I renewed it.

Mike

CreativeDave
16th January 2011, 10:32 PM
If you have “hard” tap water use distilled or bottled.
A good quality 00 pointed sable brush.
A ceramic four part watercolour dish is a really useful thing.
Touch the tip of the damp brush onto your photoflo solution so you can pick up and add just a small amount to about a quarter of a teaspoon of water in your mixing dish.
Spot first with clear water to dampen the emulsion so the dye will bleed slightly and not leave a sharp edge.
Mix a spot on the dish that is very pale, and then spot and build up slowly.
Try it on the print boarder first to see that it is the right tone and not too dark, it should be very pale.
Dab once with dry tissue to remove any excess before spotting again.
Don’t go too far, leave it to dry slightly and then decide if it needs another. It is better to have too little than too much.
If its gloss RC, when it is dry polish gently with a micro fibre cloth if necessary. You only need to rub the surface of your spot once to make it blend in better.

NStepien
18th January 2011, 05:01 PM
Thank you all for sharing your techniques...much appreciated and will try my hand with next batch of prints.