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View Full Version : The Joys of a Rangefinder system


kennethcooke
16th December 2008, 10:06 PM
For a good 40 years I have used, mainly Japanese SLR's from a variety of manufacturers but this year I decided to buy a camera system that I have always coveted, namely a Leica M system and it is such a joy to use. As a spectacle Variofocal user with an astigmatism in both eyes the Leica M6 0.72 viewfinder is a dream to use and focusing is so easy and precise. This system offers me everything I need without bulk. I just chuck the camera over my shoulder and forget it is there until I want it then the controls come to hand so easily. I liked this system so much I even bought a second body. I have never had the luxury of two camera bodies before. I even decided on three lenses- 35mm- 50mm- 75mm. There again I have only ever been a one camera one lens photographer. Having said that I usually still only take out one camera and lens at a time and if I haven't brought the right one it is no big deal

Argentum
16th December 2008, 10:13 PM
I have my eye on a zeiss ikon. Problem is justifying the expense of a complete new system and finding the dosh to pay for a set of lenses. Problem is I like short tele lenses and I'm not convinced that a range finder is so good for 85 to 135 lenses due to such a small framing area. So I would have to keep the contax system for that and use the zeiss for normal and wide angle lenses where rangefinders really start to shine so I hear.

Mike O'Pray
16th December 2008, 10:43 PM
You're in good company Kenneth. A certain Mr Hicks is a committed Leica RF fan. He says that one of the great things about it for candid street photography is that people think you've just got it out of a charity shop for a fiver and therefore you are harmless. Sometimes things that look like bazookas(F5 with 300mm lens) are perceived as dangerous but a slim Leica, well where's the harm? is thought of most people.

Mike

kennethcooke
16th December 2008, 10:55 PM
I have my eye on a zeiss ikon. Problem is justifying the expense of a complete new system and finding the dosh to pay for a set of lenses. Problem is I like short tele lenses and I'm not convinced that a range finder is so good for 85 to 135 lenses due to such a small framing area. So I would have to keep the contax system for that and use the zeiss for normal and wide angle lenses where rangefinders really start to shine so I hear.

I would agree. A rangefinder camera is in it's element fitted with, say a 24mm up to a 90mm. beyond the the framelines are quite small and I take your point about having two different systems. Not good in my experience and also Leica has dropped it's R models after Photokina and now only offers an S2 which is a big chunky digital beast. In M series only the M7 and MP remain in film cameras. I have tried an R8 which was good but I would be a little unsure about going down that route

Trevor Crone
16th December 2008, 11:02 PM
The rangefinder is a wonderful concept, particularly for street photography. With the right eye looking through the camera viewfinder and the left eye viewing the wider world ever watchful on what may unfold.

Andrew Bartram
17th December 2008, 09:59 AM
I have a Bessa R3a with the 40mm Nokoton Lens.
The viewfinder is the best bit as it is 1:1 and lends itself to keeping both eyes open allowing the user to almost become part of the scene he is viewing.
I also bought an Olympus 35RC rangefinder for £18 on e-bay and find it a joy to use. It goes most places with me.

CarlRadford
17th December 2008, 07:15 PM
The Zeiss Ikon gets great reviews: http://theonlinephotographer.com/the_online_photographer/blog_index.html a Leica beater - well.... I'd seriously consider one being attached to my glasses too!

kennethcooke
17th December 2008, 07:28 PM
The Zeiss Ikon gets great reviews: http://theonlinephotographer.com/the_online_photographer/blog_index.html a Leica beater - well.... I'd seriously consider one being attached to my glasses too!

I would agree Carl the Zeiss Ikon you mentioned does get good reviews. There has always been healthy competition between the two premier German companies but Leica gets my vote for longevity and overall computability within the M system and the earlier Leica screw system. Let us not forget Nikon who produced some excellent viewfinder models up to the Millenium

Argentum
17th December 2008, 07:48 PM
The Zeiss Ikon gets great reviews: http://theonlinephotographer.com/the_online_photographer/blog_index.html a Leica beater - well.... I'd seriously consider one being attached to my glasses too!

I think this is a pretty good write up on the ZI as it is called by many so as not to confuse with older Zeiss Ikons.

http://elekm.net/zeiss_ikon/pages/intro.html

kennethcooke
17th December 2008, 10:04 PM
I have a friend who bought a Voigtlander Bessa as a second body to his M6 which I think is a good cost saving move. If one accepts that with Leica it is all about the optics, I am not totally 100% convince about that argument, then using Leica glass on the Voigtlander is not a bad idea

Richard Gould
2nd January 2009, 02:19 PM
Rangefinders a great to use, i have an old(early sixties) voightlander vitomatic with color skopar, fixed 50mm lens and it is great for street photography nobody seems to notice you using it and the results are great Richard

toffeezebra
15th January 2009, 12:30 PM
I have a friend who bought a Voigtlander Bessa as a second body to his M6 which I think is a good cost saving move. If one accepts that with Leica it is all about the optics, I am not totally 100% convince about that argument, then using Leica glass on the Voigtlander is not a bad idea

Kenneth

I'm a proud owner of a Leica M6 and I have used and owned it for almost a year now. I love it. When I bought it, I also bought a collapsable Leitz Elmar 50mm lens. I soon got fed up with collapsing and opening this lens but found I couldn't afford to replace it with Leica glass. So I opted for Voigtlander lenses instead. I now have a 50mm lens and a 35mm lens for less than the cost of a single Leica lens. I am very pleased with the results that I have got from my new lenses but I still find myself wondering what difference using Leica lenses would have made to my pictures. Maybe one day I will be able to afford the luxury of replacing these lenses with Leica glass but in the meantime I'll keep wondering what if.....

:rolleyes:

Jack Lusted
15th January 2009, 03:31 PM
Kenneth,
I well remember that day when I was lent an M4P by Hove Camera. Up to that time I used an OM1 and an OM4, sadly the OM1 was never the same since the winder jammed and the OM4 ate batteries. So I decided to get a Nikon. As I was living in Brighton at the time I went into the aforesaid shop to have a look at their Nikon stuff. The chapette serving me said 'How about a Leica', and I said something like 'can't afford that'. She said I'll lend you this M4P for the weekend and see how you like it.
Well on Monday after much agonizing and camera fondling I took the OM bodies and collection of lenses and my cheque book down to Hove Cameras and bought it.
I think it was the best photographic decision that I've ever made...

That is until I bought a twin lens rolleiflex.

How I remember the day when I first opened.....

Jack

Paul Mitchell
15th January 2009, 04:01 PM
Here's my favourite rangefinder... tis a pity I couldn't afford the 30mm lens though

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3058784589_95173945c0_o.jpg

Paul

André.E.C.
15th January 2009, 06:19 PM
My rangefinder units!




I have this for 35mm

http://www.pindelski.org/Blog/Contax.jpg

this for nostalgia

http://www.ukcamera.com/classic_cameras/cameras/T0002098.jpg

and my favourite

http://www.apug.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12401&d=1226047995


Cheers



André

kennethcooke
16th January 2009, 08:14 PM
Kenneth

I'm a proud owner of a Leica M6 and I have used and owned it for almost a year now. I love it. When I bought it, I also bought a collapsable Leitz Elmar 50mm lens. I soon got fed up with collapsing and opening this lens but found I couldn't afford to replace it with Leica glass. So I opted for Voigtlander lenses instead. I now have a 50mm lens and a 35mm lens for less than the cost of a single Leica lens. I am very pleased with the results that I have got from my new lenses but I still find myself wondering what difference using Leica lenses would have made to my pictures. Maybe one day I will be able to afford the luxury of replacing these lenses with Leica glass but in the meantime I'll keep wondering what if.....

:rolleyes:

I'm looking for a good collapsable Elmar they are wonderful to use when you just want to stick the camera in your coat pocket. Re your comments on optics. I have a 50mm Summicron and a 35mm Summicron asph they are both superb and totally different to thier Japanese imitators but I guess you already know that if you have an M6

Andrew Bartram
16th January 2009, 10:26 PM
Olympus 35 RC

Fits in my coat pocket, wonderful sharp lens, no one takes it seriously and it cost me £18 from e-bay. I paid £13 for an original metal lense hood. Fantastic

Also have a Bessa R3a as I couldn't afford a Leica...still like the RC though!

toffeezebra
17th January 2009, 09:37 AM
Andrew, the Bessa is a good camera by all accounts. I had every intention of buying one when I visited Aperture in London last March. However, I allowed the Salesman an opportunity to show me an M6 and I fell for it. I have had so much fun using it, I don't regret it. It's funny but when I started using this forum, I had every intention of not talking about equipment and here I am doing that very thing. I'm obviously not very good at keeping to my intentions.:o

kennethcooke
17th January 2009, 10:43 PM
Andrew, the Bessa is a good camera by all accounts. I had every intention of buying one when I visited Aperture in London last March. However, I allowed the Salesman an opportunity to show me an M6 and I fell for it. I have had so much fun using it, I don't regret it. It's funny but when I started using this forum, I had every intention of not talking about equipment and here I am doing that very thing. I'm obviously not very good at keeping to my intentions.:o

I love the M6 so much that I recently bought a second body so that I can load different speeds of B&W film. I have a Voigtlander 75mm Colour Heliar lens which I use very infrequently but I guess I am spoilt by the Summicrons. I just could not justify the expense of 75mm Summicron. In the long term I might try to get hold of a collapsable Elmar or Summaron because I do like the effect that the older Leitz produce for certain subjects, particularly portraiture. The modern Summicrons can be particularly revealing especially on close ups of ladies who I am not sure would appreciate the warts and all definition that the Summicrons produce

pentaxpete
4th March 2009, 04:35 PM
I will try to insert my rangefinder gear : Leica II from 1934+50mm f2 Summar and M's
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/25850987@N03/3322571391/" title="Leica II by pentaxpete, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/3322571391_2acf23091a.jpg" width="500" he ight="422" alt="Leica II" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/25850987@N03/3323404276/" title="Leica M system by pentaxpete, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3323404276_b7e402490d.jpg" width="500" height="244" alt="Leica M system" /></a>

Jack Lusted
4th March 2009, 05:20 PM
Anyone use a Kiev 4?
I just got one off the bay for twenty quid and it's great. A nice solid feel and the lens seems to be a good one.
Obviously not as refined as my M6, but as it cost the merest fraction of the Leica you would not expect it to be. So you don't mind it chucking it about in the back of the car.
A surprisingly good camera.

jack

PMarkey
4th March 2009, 05:24 PM
Here you go Pete :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3323404276_b7e402490d.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3574/3322571391_2acf23091a.jpg

PMarkey
4th March 2009, 07:09 PM
Anyone use a Kiev 4?
I just got one off the bay for twenty quid and it's great. A nice solid feel and the lens seems to be a good one.
Obviously not as refined as my M6, but as it cost the merest fraction of the Leica you would not expect it to be. So you don't mind it chucking it about in the back of the car.
A surprisingly good camera.

jack

I have a Kiev 4 kicking about somewhere though I haven't used it for quite a while , You just have to watch for the shutter ribbons breaking but a nice camera to use once you get used to the rather awkward way you have to hold it when shooting .

I used to use quite a few Russian range finders , Mainly Zorki and FED , unfortunately I grew tired of repairing them every other month and bought a Minolta SLR that wasn't 50+ years old :rolleyes: as my main camera and sold most of them (Regretting that now :slap: ) but still have a Zorki Zorki (Export version of the Zorki 1) that I keep planning to change the shutter curtains on and resurect and no doubt a search of various boxes will turn up a few other cameras in various states of decreptitude :D

For now though I have a Salyut 6x6 and Kiev 88CM to satisfy my itch for Russian masochism .

CarlRadford
16th March 2009, 09:45 PM
I've been watching a couple of m2s and m6s go through on ebay - might have to jump soon :)

Tom Stanworth
19th March 2009, 01:47 PM
... I have a 50mm Summicron and a 35mm Summicron asph they are both superb and totally different to thier Japanese imitators but I guess you already know that if you have an M6

I am not so sure that this rule is universal. Shoot a current 50mm summicron next to a 50mm ZM planar or a 35 cron asph next to a biogon and you might be surprised. Interestingly the Zeiss ZM designs are very different to modern Leica designs and have not imitated them optically, but instead used their own solutions. In terms of overall results, they share some of the characterisics of both leica generations. Inferior, no; different, yes. In some respects they are somewhere between the pre-asph and asph lenses from Leica.

Some of the CV lenses are superb optically and give Leica optics a heck of a run for their money (such as the inexpensive 35 2.5 and 28 3.5). I have owned (or own) a few Leica lenses, but primarily use ZMs. Their performance blows me away and quite literally leave me wanting nothing more.

kennethcooke
28th March 2009, 12:09 PM
I am not so sure that this rule is universal. Shoot a current 50mm summicron next to a 50mm ZM planar or a 35 cron asph next to a biogon and you might be surprised. Interestingly the Zeiss ZM designs are very different to modern Leica designs and have not imitated them optically, but instead used their own solutions. In terms of overall results, they share some of the characterisics of both leica generations. Inferior, no; different, yes. In some respects they are somewhere between the pre-asph and asph lenses from Leica.

Some of the CV lenses are superb optically and give Leica optics a heck of a run for their money (such as the inexpensive 35 2.5 and 28 3.5). I have owned (or own) a few Leica lenses, but primarily use ZMs. Their performance blows me away and quite literally leave me wanting nothing more.

I had not realised that Carl Zeiss were of Japanese manufacture, which I was referring to in my post

Argentum
28th March 2009, 02:33 PM
I had not realised that Carl Zeiss were of Japanese manufacture, which I was referring to in my post

The Zeiss Ikon body is manufactured by cosina/voightlander.
The ZM 15 and 85 lenses are manufactured in Germany. The rest of the zeries are made by cosina/voightlander.

Jon Butler
28th March 2009, 10:56 PM
Rangefinder cameras, I love them.
I've used Leica's since the mid sixties a S/hand M3 and still got it, it's never been serviced and works beautifully. Had three M6's over the years since 1982, just the one now along with an M7 & an MP and a draw full of lenses.
The pity is they I rarely get used now because I've gone off 35mm. Although you can make a fine print from 35mm it is so much easier to make one from say 6x7 or 5x4 as I now do.
If you think the image quality is good with a Leica camera and lens try a Mamiya 7 it will blow you mind.
Mind you I do always carry my old friend the LEICA M6.
JON.

Tom Stanworth
29th March 2009, 07:46 AM
lets not forget Zeiss glass! I specifically went for things the other way round. Leica bodies and ZM lenses. Very happy!

kennethcooke
29th March 2009, 04:43 PM
Rangefinder cameras, I love them.
I've used Leica's since the mid sixties a S/hand M3 and still got it, it's never been serviced and works beautifully. Had three M6's over the years since 1982, just the one now along with an M7 & an MP and a draw full of lenses.
The pity is they I rarely get used now because I've gone off 35mm. Although you can make a fine print from 35mm it is so much easier to make one from say 6x7 or 5x4 as I now do.
If you think the image quality is good with a Leica camera and lens try a Mamiya 7 it will blow you mind.
Mind you I do always carry my old friend the LEICA M6.
JON.

I agree with your comments about medium format. The larger the neg the better. It is a bit like they used to say about loudspeakers, big loudspeakers full sound and both still follow in my view however 35mm has always been my preferred format using a camera, as I did for mountain photography shooting Kodachrome II projected through a Leitz Pradovit was about as good as it got. A friend of mine, Gordon Stainforth uses medium format and produces some fabulous mountaineering photographs though

http://www.gordonstainforth.co.uk/

kennethcooke
29th March 2009, 04:47 PM
lets not forget Zeiss glass! I specifically went for things the other way round. Leica bodies and ZM lenses. Very happy!

I am not sure why anyone would want to do that but I guess it would not do for everyone to do the same

RH Designs
9th May 2009, 05:31 PM
Olympus 35 RC

Fits in my coat pocket, wonderful sharp lens, no one takes it seriously and it cost me £18 from e-bay. I paid £13 for an original metal lense hood. Fantastic

Also have a Bessa R3a as I couldn't afford a Leica...still like the RC though!

Hi Andrew

I just picked up one of these at the local auction sale (together with an old Voigtlander Brilliant) for £12! Lovely little thing and I'm looking forward to using it, once I've renewed the light seals and found a suitable battery. It came with a scruffy original ERC and a UV filter. I notice one similar but in slightly worse nick has just sold on Feebay for £154 ...!

du a gwyn
9th May 2009, 10:07 PM
Hello everybody,i've been a big fan of rangefinder cameras for a long time.currently i use canon G-III QL.great little camera,great for the pocket.i've just sold my Bronica RF645 last week again a beautiful camera but didnt like 645 format.going back to the canon,i've been lucky enough to find the original lens hood for this camera.had to search hard though!
hwyl am y tro.

kennethcooke
13th May 2009, 11:09 PM
Wonderful- enjoy it in good health

knikki
16th September 2009, 11:36 AM
I found and got working again my dads old Canon Canonet one of the early ones with selinum meter and shutter priorty. The slow speeds were vvveerryyy ssllooww but after about an hour of wind fire, hey presto all works. Ran a print film through it and it appears to work ok.

Also just got hold of a Contax IIIa with 21mm lens really looking forward to using that fairly soon as well.

StanW
16th September 2009, 09:05 PM
I do it on the cheap with a Zorki 4K and a CAnon 28mm.

TimoS
21st January 2010, 12:51 PM
Here's my favourite rangefinder... tis a pity I couldn't afford the 30mm lens though

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3207/3058784589_95173945c0_o.jpg

Paul

Is that a Hasselblad Xpan? Strangely, it looks a lot like my Konica Hexar RF - both cameras have a very similar arrangement of operating controls , e.h. the cable release socket, the camera back opening knob or the shutter speed dial. I wonder if these cameras were designed by the same group of designers.

BTW: The Hexar RF is a great camera. It is the Japanese equivalent of an M7, and it gets all those things right that the Leica designers disregarded, plus it has an integrated motor winder. And above all - it works with M bayonet lenses.

StanW
22nd January 2010, 02:56 AM
I've found that my Zorki 4K with a 28mm Canon lens is ideal for the street.

Paul Mitchell
25th January 2010, 02:44 PM
Is that a Hasselblad Xpan? Strangely, it looks a lot like my Konica Hexar RF - both cameras have a very similar arrangement of operating controls , e.h. the cable release socket, the camera back opening knob or the shutter speed dial. I wonder if these cameras were designed by the same group of designers.

BTW: The Hexar RF is a great camera. It is the Japanese equivalent of an M7, and it gets all those things right that the Leica designers disregarded, plus it has an integrated motor winder. And above all - it works with M bayonet lenses.

It is indeed an XPan and probably one of the last new one's to be bought in the UK from RW's. I've often coveted the Hexar but the beauty of the XPan is being able to take a normal 36x24 frame and at the flick of a switch 63x24!

Pah, who needs fancy pano stitching software when you have one of these puppies!

NoelKingsley
25th January 2010, 05:46 PM
HI Kenneth,
I've virtually the same kit as you; two leica M6 bodies, a 35, 50 and a 90mm (I had a 75 until it was stolen and replaced it with the 90). My main use of the Leica is tripod mounted for church interiors; probably a misuse of the equipment as it was designed and intended for photo-journalism but I love the lenses and clarity. Had it 10 years and think I prefer it to my Hasselblad that I tend to use for landscapes...
Noel

vincent
25th January 2010, 08:49 PM
It is indeed an XPan and probably one of the last new one's to be bought in the UK from RW's. I've often coveted the Hexar but the beauty of the XPan is being able to take a normal 36x24 frame and at the flick of a switch 63x24!

Pah, who needs fancy pano stitching software when you have one of these puppies!

Hi Paul as an owner of the xpan I often wonder why they bothered with the normal 35 mm function. I can count on one hand the number of times that I've used it.

B&W Neil
25th January 2010, 10:33 PM
I also use an XPAN and love it. But I am quite happy to use it in 35mm frame mode as well as panoramic if I see a shot that suits. The quality from the 35mm sized XPAN negs is just stunning.

Neil.

kennethcooke
26th January 2010, 12:30 AM
HI Kenneth,
I've virtually the same kit as you; two leica M6 bodies, a 35, 50 and a 90mm (I had a 75 until it was stolen and replaced it with the 90). My main use of the Leica is tripod mounted for church interiors; probably a misuse of the equipment as it was designed and intended for photo-journalism but I love the lenses and clarity. Had it 10 years and think I prefer it to my Hasselblad that I tend to use for landscapes...
Noel

I guess what ever use you put your camera to is fine. My Leicas don't grace many church interiors being an atheist (Buddhist) but as it is my only camera system it tends to get used for all my photographic needs and whims. I must say I also have not ventured down the photojournalist route either and on principal I do not take candid photographs

brianrbird
30th January 2010, 06:03 PM
I've used the 2 leica compacts since they came out,must be about six years now, & I love them. Had the CM first, then traded that in for the CZ, although they will not be replacing this, being a film camera. Still leicas last forever. Anyone bought the new Bessa 111 M/F camera? Jonathan Eastland gave it a great review in BJP a few weeks ago.

Phil Price
31st January 2010, 02:56 PM
Welcome to the Leica RF system Kenneth, I took the plunge several years ago, and have never had any regrets. I have two M6 bodies,and two lenses, and I find it just allows me to concentrate on taking Photographs, and in the PC world we have to endure in the UK today its true people do not perceive you as somehow using a real camera, how crazy is that ! Phil, Birmingham