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View Full Version : Portable MF camera conundrum, help me out!


DaveP
26th May 2011, 10:50 AM
Thought I might throw this open to the floor. I'm on the lookout for a more portable and handholdable alternative to my Mamiya 645 setup for handheld travel/family/outdoor photography My 4x5 has replaced my M645 for anything tripod based, what with spending most of my spare time chasing a toddler around over the last year or so I've found my Mamiya getting next to no use, as even with no grip and the smallest lens its still a fair size and a bulky package. So I've been chewing over the alternatives for something a bit handier that could still bring home the results, easilys pops nto a rucksack, and of course, not cost the earth.

Recntly I was sure I'd found the perfect camera in a Fuji GS645 (the folding 75mm lens one) from a dealer. Its very small, good modern glass, coupled rangefinder, good meter, nice vertical viewfinder (I ike vertical shots), feels good in the hand and folds nto a nice self-protecting package that takes little more room than a modern digital compact. But alas this turned sour last week after only 2 rolls the rangefinder was sticking, the bellows (despite being replaced and very sturdy looking) leaked, the meter packed in and the front lens standard was out of alignment so anything less than f16 gave soft shots. Understandably this has kinda shattered my confidence in this model of camera and to an extent in folders generally.

So I'm now on the lookout for alternatives. The obvious (inevitable?) choice would be the GS645S(with the 60mm lens) although its a lot less compact because of the fixed lens and bullbars and possibly a little less robust when packed. I feel the compactness of the folder will be hard to match, I was slightly spoilt by portability for the short time I had it and maybe its just unrealistic to try and find something similar. I think I will need“modern” style operation - proper film winding/ shutter cocking, good meter (I shoot slide film) and a coupled rangefinder - are there any "vintage" folders that fit this bill?

And before anyone points out the new Fuji 6x7 folder, yes this does look close to perfect but I don't have a spare 1500 quid...

So if anyone can chip in with anything I might not have thought of, or other ideas, or generally would like to spend my money for me, I'm all ears.

Thanks

RH Designs
26th May 2011, 10:59 AM
New Mamiya 6. Superb interchangeable lenses, very compact with the lens retracted. Square format so you don't need to worry about which way to hold it. The only problem will be finding one ...

I'm not well versed with folders but I'm sure someone will chime in with a few suggestions.

Richard Gould
26th May 2011, 11:20 AM
if you don't mind 6x6 then perhaps a rollei, either a flex or a cord, would suit, easy to carry around, uncomplicated and great results,
as for folders, you should not be having any problems with the fuji, thyey are very well made cameras, the only weakness is the belows which is made of a plastic, which does wear, I should either take it back to where the bellows were fitted or where you got it, I have a camera from 1938 with original (leather) bellows that works perfectly, so don't be to quick to give up on folders, I have, at present count, around 7 or 8 MF folders, all are light tight and they all work perfectly, and are from 1938 to 1954,
Richard

Paul Mitchell
26th May 2011, 11:43 AM
I bought my Agfa Super Isolette a couple of years ago after finding that my Fuji GW670III was too big to just pop in my small Billingham Hadley. Since then it pretty much travels everywhere with me and I can fit my Zero 2000, light meter and a few rolls of film too!

For some reason the prices have risen recently, in fact I saw one on Sunday at Photographica selling for £380.00! (I bought mine for £200.00) with an Isolette III going for £199.00! I'm sure if you search around you could pick one up cheaper.

There's also the cheaper Russian 'Iskra' copy which have heard good reports about. If you do want something a little more modern what about the Bronica RF645?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3188/3059618328_76af6b9a37_z.jpg?zz=1

Paul

Phil
26th May 2011, 11:51 AM
Yes, I've been giving a lot of thought to the same sort of thing recently. So you find the Mamiya bulky? Yet it looks quite small for what it is.
The later Fuji 645's get great reviews, and your early one with bellows gets thumbs down for exactly the things you said went wrong.
A Rolleiflex as Richard suggested, though bulky-ish, is a great travel companion. If you went for the T model, you could get the 16-on kit and have 'nearly' 6x4.5. The lens is fantastic, and especially so at f8 and 11, but it is a tad bulkier.
Have you thought about the Bronica RF 645? That, though still pricey, got excellent reviews, and it is quite small.
If you can afford it there's always the Mamiya 7, or maybe one of the old Zeiss Ikon folders would foot the bill?
Good luck - it's fun looking!
Phil

Richard Gould
26th May 2011, 03:34 PM
What about an English camera?, you can get an ensign selfix 16/20, which gives you 645 negatives, and folds up small enough to fit in your pocket, and if you get one with the Ross xpress lens then you have a great camera, you need a Exposure meter, and it is a guesstimate focus, but with the depth of field indicator it is easy to get sharp negatives, or if you want a bigger negative there is the 12/20, or even bigger the 820, which gives you 6x9 or 6x6,they are all great cameras, I have them all and use them all the time,
Richard

Trevor Crone
26th May 2011, 03:47 PM
The Bronica RF 645 - super 'handholdability', interchangeable lenses which are pin sharp and relatively compact, 58mm filters. The 45mm wide angle lens has a separate bright-line viewfinder. The light meter is very accurate over a variety and challenging lighting conditions. Has aperture priority and program exposure modes as well as manual settings. The viewfinder is clear, bright and uncluttered, however I do find the area for focusing a wee bit on the small size for my taste but again it is positive.

Although I mainly bought the camera for a particular project I've found it quite versatile so I can see me using it 'further afield'.

Dave miller
26th May 2011, 04:13 PM
The Bronica RF 645 - super 'handholdability', interchangeable lenses which are pin sharp and relatively compact, 58mm filters. The 45mm wide angle lens has a separate bright-line viewfinder. The light meter is very accurate over a variety and challenging lighting conditions. Has aperture priority and program exposure modes as well as manual settings. The viewfinder is clear, bright and uncluttered, however I do find the area for focusing a wee bit on the small size for my taste but again it is positive.

Although I mainly bought the camera for a particular project I've found it quite versatile so I can see me using it 'further afield'.

I agree with Trevor’s appraisal, I recently brought an RF645 as a “walking out camera” and whilst it isn’t what I call pocketable, it does fit into a small bag with room for filters and film.

DaveP
26th May 2011, 08:48 PM
Well as they say my cup well and truly runneth over with suggestions - thanks all. I'll try and run down a few thoughts:

New Mamiya 6. Superb interchangeable lenses, very compact with the lens retracted. Square format so you don't need to worry about which way to hold it. The only problem will be finding one ...

…and affording one!

if you don't mind 6x6 then perhaps a rollei, either a flex or a cord, would suit, easy to carry around, uncomplicated and great results

Interesting suggestion this one. I have used a yashica mat recently but sold it partly because the shutter release broke, but also because I never really gelled with it for handholding/walkaround use, and for tripod use I've got the 4x5. I seem to remember when packing it for a scrambling weekend in snowdonia I found once I'd packed my spotmeter with the TLR it was scarcely a more compact than the Mamiya 645, although granted it was lighter. For non-mountain use, I found the slight added weight of the Mamiya was more than compensated for by the added ease of use. My gut feeling is a TLR won't be compact enough for me now, but the issue of not relying on bellows and rangefinder calibration is a selling point.

Vintage folders: A few years ago I did have a Bessa 6x9 folder for a while. I found the viewfinder pitifully small, the lens had colour fringing issues around the edge of frame even at f/22, and the front cell focussing wasn't great. I would maybe look at a folder again if any of them are lens-unit focussing type (I think the super isolette might be like this?) and have a viewfinder that is decent. I seem to remember looking at them again a few years back and concluding the really good ones in decent nick were quite expensive by virtue of being collectable. The issue of metering is a concern too - how many of these 50-year old cameras have a meter on-the-ball enough for slide film? I have handheld meters but would prefer not to have to cart them around with a handheld camera.

Bronica RF645 - this is something I should probably look seriously at. I think I sometimes dimiss Bronica as I once handled a ETRs and it seemed clunky and a bit backwards compared to the Mamiya. The rangefinder model however does look pretty good, probably worth serious deliberation. Price might be an issue, looks like a basic body+65mm clocks in at about 550 quid at dealers, about the same as my entire Mamiya 3-lens kit. Is cheap compared to a mamiya 6/7 though.

Yes, I've been giving a lot of thought to the same sort of thing recently. So you find the Mamiya bulky? Yet it looks quite small for what it is.

Phil to be honest the mamiya 645 aint actually all that bad for a medium format setup, especially given the relatively fast glass available. I carry (or rather carried) mine with the metering prism and 80mm 2.8 in the same size of Lowepro zoom bag as you'd carry a large 35mm SLR with a zoom. Its not all that bad in itself, but it does tend to make its weight felt after a day round the neck, and if you chuck the bag into a rucksack it seems to swallow space up. In contrast, this fuji folder was like a breath of fresh air - I could shoehorn it into the top of my climbing bag in about the space of a guidebook or a maltloaf.

dsallen
26th May 2011, 09:56 PM
The issue of metering is a concern too - how many of these 50-year old cameras have a meter on-the-ball enough for slide film? I have handheld meters but would prefer not to have to cart them around with a handheld camera.

Personally, I have never found in-camera metering much good. A simple hand-held meter with a bit of thought always wins out.

I love my Mamiya 7 but the meter (being very centre-biased) . . . well it always shows more than two stops different from what I decide with my Weston III - and I find that my exposures are always spot-on unless I myself made a stupid mistake.

I think you should concentrate on the glass and your personal requirement regarding size/pocket-ability/price etc.

Best of luck finding what suits.

MartyNL
26th May 2011, 11:36 PM
I've also been looking into a MF "point & shoot".
The Fuji wins hands down for portability and the GA645 ZI is favourite;

Fuji 645 models (http://antiquecameras.net/fuji645cameras.html)

Do some searches to check-out reviews and to see if it fits the bill.

Afterwards you'll be able to join this forum (http://fujirangefinder.com/) too!

B&W Neil
27th May 2011, 06:25 AM
Although I am lucky to have a Mamiya 7 and a couple of lenses the system is still quite heavy to do serious walking with. I am also in the habit of taking 35mm gear as well so I am often torn between taking the M7 system or my Nikons but not both. So about 6 months ago I started looking for a lighter MF camera that could go out with my Nikons. In the end I settled on the Fuji GS645S and have found it to be ideal for this purpose. The lens is fanatstic too. I bought mine from Ffordes for a tad under £300 with a six month warrenty. For the money I think you are talking about the GS645S needs some consideration.

Neil.

Keith Cocker
27th May 2011, 07:39 AM
My Billingham Hadley Pro has a Rolleiflex (2.8F) - (meter is reliable with a bit of judgement), film, hood, a couple of filters, a Rolleinar (or 2) and plenty of room for my wallet, phone etc. I can happily walk round all day with that. Even room for a small book!

ChrisN
27th May 2011, 12:12 PM
I'll add a +1 to Marty's recommendation of the later Fuji 645. I use a GA645 for the sort of situations you describe. Compact, great viewfinder, auto-focus and auto-exposure when you need it (and both very accurate), manual operation when you want it, excellent 60mm lens. In the hand it feels more robust than similar cameras in 135 format. I used it with good effect at my niece's wedding, where I wanted good quality negs to make nice prints, but did not want to seem to be competing with the pro photographer. It's only failing (shared with other rangefinder-style cameras) is the difficulty in using filters that require through-the-lens viewing (polariser and grads).

DaveP
27th June 2011, 09:54 AM
I thought I'd give a bit of an update on this. Thanks for all the kind advice by the way.

I was still undecided what to get but I recently dropped on a GS655S for cheap so gave it a go. Put a roll of provia through it yesterday to test it out. Rangefinder is a touch out of wack and the bullbar round the lens is a bit wobbly but if the test roll shows the glass is ok then shouldn't be too bad to fix.

Despite being bulkier than the folding version it feels lighter, and the side tripod thread is a nice touch. The rangefinder spot seems quite critical about your eye being centered on the finder (for it to be visible), compared to how I remember the folding model. Anyone know if this is normal?

Dave miller
27th June 2011, 10:22 AM
I thought I'd give a bit of an update on this. Thanks for all the kind advice by the way.

I was still undecided what to get but I recently dropped on a GS655S for cheap so gave it a go. Put a roll of provia through it yesterday to test it out. Rangefinder is a touch out of wack and the bullbar round the lens is a bit wobbly but if the test roll shows the glass is ok then shouldn't be too bad to fix.

Despite being bulkier than the folding version it feels lighter, and the side tripod thread is a nice touch. The rangefinder spot seems quite critical about your eye being centered on the finder (for it to be visible), compared to how I remember the folding model. Anyone know if this is normal?

I once had the Wide version and I do remember that the using the rangefinder took a bit of practice for the reason you describe.

B&W Neil
27th June 2011, 10:49 AM
The rangefinder on the Fuji GS645S is not the best I've used but it does the job once you get used to it. On the plus side the veiwefinder is very bright.

Neil.

Aynsley Cooper
27th June 2011, 03:33 PM
If that fails, I'd throw in a second suggestion to try a GA645zi.
Hold one, and if you can live with its operation, focus and lens setting, its a good left-field Fuji offering.
Finding a very fine condition one may be a touch tricky..

raulpc
27th June 2011, 05:13 PM
I have a Fuji GA645zi and I love it!!!
Ultra sharp lens, a joy to use... It turned out my perfect travel companion... its always in my bag!
:)

DaveP
27th June 2011, 07:56 PM
I once had the Wide version and I do remember that the using the rangefinder took a bit of practice for the reason you describe.

The rangefinder on the Fuji GS645S is not the best I've used but it does the job once you get used to it. On the plus side the veiwefinder is very bright.


Ahh, thats good to know, thanks for the input.

MartyNL
27th June 2011, 09:13 PM
I've just picked up a mint- Fuji GA645zi.
Should arrive before the weekend. Can't wait to give it a test run!

cesare
30th June 2011, 09:47 PM
Good choice, i've been playing with 645 this year, and picked up a GA645 after having played with a friends a while back. My one is very good, but it does underexpose in direct sunlight. I guess it's an average meter so this is maybe not at all surprising, but something to watch out for for both of the days in the year when the sun is out ;-)

Cesare

BTW, my friend also has the fuji 6*7 folder, and it really is very very nice. I know i'll end up with one at some point. Kind of inevitable really...

DaveP
2nd July 2011, 07:47 PM
I thought I'd give a bit of an update on this. Thanks for all the kind advice by the way.

I was still undecided what to get but I recently dropped on a GS655S for cheap so gave it a go. Put a roll of provia through it yesterday to test it out. Rangefinder is a touch out of wack and the bullbar round the lens is a bit wobbly but if the test roll shows the glass is ok then shouldn't be too bad to fix.

Despite being bulkier than the folding version it feels lighter, and the side tripod thread is a nice touch. The rangefinder spot seems quite critical about your eye being centered on the finder (for it to be visible), compared to how I remember the folding model. Anyone know if this is normal?

Me and my big mouth.... just tried to load test roll #2 and the film counter seems to have given up the ghost...so much for the cheap camera :slap:

Dave miller
3rd July 2011, 07:07 AM
Me and my big mouth.... just tried to load test roll #2 and the film counter seems to have given up the ghost...so much for the cheap camera :slap:
That's bad news :eek:, it sounds like sending it off for a service quote may be a good idea. If it's any consolation most of us have a cupboard full of bargains. ;)

DaveP
11th August 2011, 08:59 PM
Well I finally got the GS645S back from service, all seems to be working.

So, I'm now after a nice low profile form-fitting camera bag for it, as minimal as possible but offering a bit more protection than the original brown suede case (fetching though it is). Just needs to take the camera and maybe a couple of rolls of film and a filter or two. Ideally with its own strap. What is everyone else using for their MR rangefinders?

paddy
12th August 2011, 06:55 PM
Lowepro will have something in their range to cater for your camera.
paddy

JamesK
21st August 2011, 07:15 PM
A bit late with my "two penneth", but if light and portable is the criteria, don't get anything with interchangeable lenses!

When I got my Zorki 4 (OK, it's a 35mm rangefinder, but the principle is the same) I thought I'll get an auxillary viewfinder, wide and long lenses and....hang on a minute!

I'd have been carting around an SLR outfit in all but name if I'd have gone down this route.

Being neither young nor fit, I find carrying a roll-film SLR plus lenses and backs around a chore (ditto TLR) so I've gone out and got an Isolette and an Ensign Selfix. Both are pocket folders and won't take accessories, other than filters.

Problem solved.

big paul
22nd August 2011, 11:31 AM
I think if you are spending most of your time chasing an ankle snapper(ah bless them)as I am with my grandson,there is only one answer for me its auto focus I own 35mm nikon af cameras,but my medium format mamiya rb67 and zenza bronica 645 are both mf . I brought an AE-111 meter head as it has eyepiece diopter correction adjustment which has helped the old mince pies but I think the way to go for me is af 645,it gives me two options, mamiya 645af or pentax 645af all I have to do is convince grandma (she looks to young to be a grandmother) that I need one.