View Full Version : My "new" Voigtlander Vitessa L
GeorgeH
17th June 2011, 03:20 PM
The Vitessa L arrived yesterday and looks GOOD! The Ultron f2 lens is clean, no visable marks, rangefinder clear, bright patch, body has one small dent and a very few flaws in the chrome. Shutter sounds right. The selenium meter even works, mirabile dictu!!
It came with a nice everready case in fine condition. I'm running some Kentmere 100 through it to check focus accuracy, etc, although given its cosmetic condition suggesting that it was well cared for I imagine that all is well.
A couple oddities: Filters and hood are said to be bayonet mount, but I can't see any evidence of such. My Retina IIIc takes a bayonet mount hood, but threaded filters. Anyone have any experience in this area? I really would like to keep a skylight on it to protect that Ultron f2.
Another oddity: with the plunger film advance mounting a flash in the shoe is a problem; the flash fouls the plunger. I'll have to come up with a bracket, or an extender to mount the flash higher, not a bad idea to avoid red eye. I'm a happy camper!
Richard Gould
17th June 2011, 05:38 PM
George, You make me envious as I am very fond of Voightlander's, and so far I have 6 in my collection, ranging from a 1938 Bessa 66, 3 Vito folders, the 1,2 and 2a, a vitomatic 11a and a vito b, as regards flash I tend to use a bar to mount the flash at the side as I find it works better that way, and as for the filter, I don't have a Vitessa, but you should be able to use a push on filter. with the Rangefinder, I find with Voightlander's, as long as it is accurate at infinity then it should be fine, Have fun with it and I am looking forward to seeing some of the results,
Richard
GeorgeH
17th June 2011, 06:02 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, Richard, and for the thoughts on the rangefinder, which sound very reasonable. I've read about adjusting the rf on a Vitessa and it sounds like a nightmare!! It seems that the eyepiece, rf window and viewfinder window are attatched to the top cover, but have to be used to adjust the optical system. So one makes a tiny change, puts the top cover back on, checks the result, curses, and repeats the process ad nauseum. The factory probably had a jig with those optics on it.
As I think about it the moon would be an excellent infinity target, exposure the same as here on earth at midday, since it is by definition sun-lit.
For the flash, if I can find or make a shoe to fit the accessory clip I could use a wood dowel with an accessory clip on the other end to raise the flash. The tripod socket is raised proud of the case and would necessitate some packing or shimming to make a bar work.
The Vitessa has that fine mechanical feel that is uncommon nowadays. I mentioned that to Flora my wife and she noted that her old Bernini swiss-made sewing machine has it, too. All metal, heavy, and everything fits beautifully. My Pentax LX has that feel, but my Pentax K10D and Pentax 645n don't. So much plastic these days.... How many current cameras will be treasured in fifty or seventy-five years??
Richard Gould
17th June 2011, 06:43 PM
George, Don't know if this would work for the flash, but on one of my Cameras,( this time a Welmy six MF) I needed to raise the height of the Accessory shoe, and I had an old hot shoe to pc cord adaptor that slipped in the shoe and raised it enough for me to fit a shoe mounted rangefinder, Might be able to do something like that, as for the flash bar, with both of my Werras I don't have a accessory shoe on the camera so I have to use a flash bar, and in order to clear the winder and frame counter I need to fit a spare case screw, and I have no problems tightining down the flash bar,it holds fine without any problem,
Richard
GeorgeH
17th June 2011, 07:05 PM
Richard, good thought! I'll have to see if the hot shoe to pc adaptor would do the job, since I have one. The shim or packing for the flash bar is because I want to use the "neverready" case as much as possible since the camera's finish is in such good shape. The Vitessa does have strap lugs, but no matter what using them entails rub marks on a camera body. My Pentax LX bought used already had such marks, so I didn't worry, but the Vitessa is so clean...
Richard Gould
17th June 2011, 08:15 PM
George,
There is no reason that a flash bar cannot be used with the camera in an every ready case, try it and see, I use a flash bar with both my Vito 1 and 2 as neither of them has a accessory shoe, and I have to use it with the camera in an ever ready case as neither of them has strap lugs and I have never had a problem, I also two of my Retinas, the 1b and 11c, with the camera in a ER case with a flash bar, I was using one only last week that way as I prefer to have the flash to one side, so it can be done, I also prefer to keep them in a case to preserve the finish,also my Ensign 16/20 needs to have a er case due to lack of strap lugs, and no accessory shoe, and I use a flash bar with that, never had a problem yet, worth a try for the cost of a bar,around £5 over here, as you can probably tell I love my old/classic cameras and currently have around 20 both MF and 35mm and use then all the time, in preferance to a Modern camera,
Richard
GeorgeH
17th June 2011, 09:07 PM
Richard,
Thanks much for the user report! I plan to check at a local old line shop with an amazing assortment of used gear to see if there is such a bar or the sort of tower thing I'd described. The flash would have to be elevated about 3 or 4 inches to clear the plunger, my finger, and to give a little breathing room.
I have discovered the "bayonet" mount on the lens for filters. It is sort of an interrupted thread, one would insert the filter, give a half-turn or less twist, and voila! But of course strictly proprietary. Rats! I hate to use one of the old series adaptors, they tend to mar the lens bezel. Those German engineers!
Thanks again!
Richard Gould
18th June 2011, 05:45 AM
George,
I see your problem with raising the flash,and the filter, Those german camera makers were very clever, problem is these 50's cameras were really made for bulb flash,mostly electronic flash was very much the preserve of top flight professionals,and very few of them used electronic, prefering bulb as bulb in those far of times, was more powerful, so designers built the cameras with that in mind,
Richard
GeorgeH
18th June 2011, 03:10 PM
Richard,
Too clever by far. Have you seen images of the combined everready case and flash reflector? A nightmarish device; just imagine the lighting for a portrait. Horizontal format, from below: classic film noir menace lighting. Vertical format, struggle to keep the reflector where it ought to be.
I well remember the number 5 flash bulbs! They'd blister paint at 10 feet. And the M-2 was pretty potent by today's standards. I had a Kodak rotary flash holder for them. Five bulbs on a plastic holder, one pulled back on the rear of the device, rotated to the next bulb and fire away. I used one for shooting night sports.
Richard Gould
18th June 2011, 04:28 PM
George,
I don't know the Vitessa, I don't have one and I have never seen one, and can only go by the Voightlander's I have in my collection, how about posting a pic of yours? I would love to see it,
Richard
GeorgeH
18th June 2011, 05:55 PM
Richard,
I'll be happy to send some. Let me finish the test roll so I can shoot some "interior" shots. The removeable back is sort of remarkable. I imagine only Leica goes to that sort of effort these dark days. Be a day or two.
George
Richard Gould
18th June 2011, 06:35 PM
George,
Leica does a removeable back today, but my werra mat and my recent bargain werra 3, £2.50 in mint condition, complwte with the 2 extra lenses , both have removable backs, and they are a joy to use, Only the Germans could make cameras so beautiful yet so practical, Shame they are all gone now,
Richard
GeorgeH
18th June 2011, 08:17 PM
I'd seen the article in Shutterbug magazine about the Werra line. They look as if the designers started with a blank sheet of paper. Certainly the film advance ring is an elegant solution, and the cameras' appearance is truly elegant industrial design. You certainly found a treasure for virtually nothing.
The old GDR camera industry was somewhat underestimated. I have a Praktica LTL, 42mm mount, TTL exposure. The meter key is just above the 45 degree shutter release, which is mounted on the right front panel. Metering is just a finger touch away from the shutter. Far better that what Pentax et al were doing with stop down metering. The meter readout is by centering the needle in a circle, so its probably a bridge circuit and thus relatively immune to voltage, a good thing since it uses a PX 35 mercury cell. I think I could use a silver cell without exposure error.
The old crate is rugged. I bought it in 1974, I think, and used it heavily, as evidenced by scrapes and scratches, one caused by bouncing off a sidewalk when I tripped. I pulled it out the other day and the shutter still sounds correct even at 1 sec. Sadly the diaphragm on the 1.8 Pentacon 50mm is stuck; I'll have to see if I can fix it and get the old girl up and running.
George
Leigh Y
18th June 2011, 11:58 PM
The Vitessa L arrived yesterday .........
A couple oddities: Filters and hood are said to be bayonet mount, but I can't see any evidence of such. My Retina IIIc takes a bayonet mount hood, but threaded filters. Anyone have any experience in this area? I really would like to keep a skylight on it to protect that Ultron f2.
I had the same model Vitessa for quite a few years.
First, you will probably find that you cannot close the barn doors with any filter fitted. Don't fret - the doors provide a degree of protection anyway.
Second, when you depress the shutter button to open the camera, keep a finger (or thumb) over the plunger so it doesn't spring right up with full force. The old mechanism can be a bit shocked.
Third, the filters ARE bayonet mount. They are unique to this camera and occasionally turn up on EBay. I had a full set. They attach with approximately one-eighth of a turn and the bayonet fittings are small and not easily seen. DON'T try to force anything on that won't fit easily. The lens hood is also a special design. Don't bother trying to look for cheap substitutes - look for genuine Voigtlander accessories for that particular camera model.
GeorgeH
19th June 2011, 12:23 PM
Leigh,
Thanks for the tips. I'm trying to make a practice of pushing both the plunger and the shutter release to open the doors, and I did discover the bayonet mount looking at the lens with a loupe. A very elegant design, but I'd rather have threads. I imagine that the hood in particular is made of Unobtanium....:)
Leigh Y
19th June 2011, 11:19 PM
George,
I've got a write up of the camera I sent to the person who bought mine and also copies (or links) to the instruction manuals. If you want, send me a private email and I'll see what i can send.
The lens hoods and filters are not unobtainable - just scarce - and I once had the actual Voigtlander part numbers (something like 320/32 but each filter and hood had it's own number).
Actually, I'll send the writeup now in a separate posting.
Leigh Y
19th June 2011, 11:21 PM
Vitessa L
I don’t know how much you know about this camera so forgive me if I am giving you information that is redundant.
It is a real jewel of a camera. It probably represents the pinnacle of folding 35mm design and features much innovative thinking such as the rapid winder plunger, the coupled rangefinder and so on. In its day it was regarded as equal to the Leica in quality and lens design but eventually the fact that it did not allow interchangeable lenses saw it lose favour. You may know that the model after this had a fixed lens mount and interchangeable lenses but the design was a compromise and was not particularly compact or attractive.
I bought the camera from an Australian collector and over the years purchased the accessory items that now come with it. I used it quite often, including trips to Asia and locally until about a year ago. It was serviced by the (now retired) technician who Voigtlander sent out to Australia in the 1950’s to work with their importer. He lives in Sydney and if the camera ever needs attention I can give you his contact details. He still does a little repair work and CLA on these old Voigtlanders (I had six different models at one time).
Although I didn’t list it in the advertisement I have a spare lends hood and case which I have decided to give you. You can keep them against the day you might need them or sell them as I was going to. I have also included a reprinted instruction manual so you have complete information on the camera’s operation.
There are a couple of “quirks” that I should tell you about in case you are not aware of them.
1. Unlike most other cameras, when you unlatch the base to load or unload a film the entire camera body slides away from the top plate, leaving the mechanical parts of the camera fully exposed and attached to the top plate. The body is just a shell that fits around the “works”.
2. When you have loaded a film, remember to set the exposure counter before you refit the body and start winding film on. The counter is on the right front of the body and is viewed through a small window.
3. I suggest you don’t operate the rangefinder control unless the camera is open. I’m always worried that the mechanism might disconnect. It never has, and it’s not a reported problem but it’s a precaution I take.
4. Sometimes when you open the camera and depress the plunger to wind on a frame the wind-on does not occur on the first stroke. Just make a second stroke and it moves the film on normally.
5. To open the camera you simply press gently down on the shutter release. The doors will unlatch and at the same time the spring-loaded winder plunger will spring up from the left side of the body. This spring is quite strong and Bruno (the service guy) advised me to always hold a finger or part of my left hand over the plunger before pressing the shutter so that the plunger does not spring up violently and hit the stops. Again, not a reported problem but I guess repeated impacts might eventually cause some issue with a 55 year old camera and it can so simply be avoided by remembering this.
6. The exposure meter seems reasonably accurate (as much as these older types were) but it reads in EV and the numbers are then transferred to the Synchro Compur shutter. EV’s are not the same as some hand-held meters read so remember this. I used a hand held Weston meter for a time and was puzzled why the reading were different until I realised that the two meters used a different scale!
7. The meter is adjustable for different film speeds up to ASA (ISO) 200 which was a fast film at that time! If you use ISO400 film, remember to make one stop adjustment from the ASA200 reading. Also you will need to adjust the exposure to compensate for any filter you have attached. The meter does not do that for you. The filter factors are written on a small piece of paper part hidden in the back of the filter/lens hood case.
I’m sorry about the orange filter. The entire set was intact but I dropped the orange one on a roadway when photographing last year and at the time it seemed OK. When I came to list the camera for sale I saw that a crack had developed. It probably wouldn’t show at small apertures but you can try it out before discarding it. I wouldn’t discard it anyway, myself. You might be able to track down a replacement or even get some glass cut to fit. The filter attachment mounts are unique to this camera design. They are a small bayonet fitting and if you do seek a replacement make sure the part number is quoted or you may end up with a Voigtlander filter that looks similar but it won’t fit. Other makes of filter will not fit either.
Oh, and another thing to remember. If you leave a filter on the camera, you cannot close the barn doors.
The Kontur viewfinder was not an original part of this camera. Voigtlander made a number of different version to suit their 6x9, 6x6 and 24x36 cameras to overcome the need for people to photograph sports or action type activities when the viewfinders of the time were rather small and restrictive. They seem a little odd at first, requiring you to use both eyes open. The viewfinder is actually just a frame that one eye sees whilst the other eye actually sees the scene at full size. In the brain the two images are superimposed so the impression is that you are viewing the scene at 1:1 ‘through’ the Kontur finder but that’s not actually what’s happening.
The frame in the Kontur finder is printed on a black film background. Take care not to leave the Kontur directly in the sun for any length of time or the viewing lens can cause the sun’s rays to burn a hole through the film rendering the viewfinder damaged beyond repair.
And finally, if for any reason you’re not satisfied with the purchase, return it for a full refund. It was a hard decision to seel it in the first place so it won’t be hard to accept it back!
Leigh Y
19th June 2011, 11:32 PM
George,
Found some photos of the camera and see that the Vitessa filters are marked "133/20 or 21 or whatever, but it's the 133 part of the number you need to look for. I think the 320 I remembered was from my Perkeo.
GeorgeH
21st June 2011, 04:16 PM
Richard,
I've processed the test roll of Kentmere 100 I shot, and the results are good. The rangefinder seems spot on, and shutter speeds seem good. 1 sec is a bit long, more like 1.3 seconds, but within film lattitude.
That Ultron lens is sharp! I scanned in the negatives at 4000 dpi on an Epson V700, and at 100% one can virtually count pine needles on a tree in the middle distance.
I'm going to burn another roll before the trial period ends, just make sure. I'll post some pix of the camera soon.
Leigh,
Thanks for the info. I'd been able to download a manual from Mike Butkus' site, orphancameras.com. He has a wealth of material on photo gear, both the big names and the little folk. Any one else remember Taron?
I'll look into a slipon series adaptor, but I hate to risk scarring the lens mount since the cosmetics of the camera are so good.
Richard Gould
21st June 2011, 06:10 PM
George,
That's great news, I have yet to have a bad Voightlander, the old original company made very pretty and reliable cameras that have stood the test of time, as have many of the German cameras of the period, as for the one second, well, I think most of them are either slightly to long or to short, but within specs, not bad for a camera and shutter made 50 or sixty years ago, I Wonder how many of today's cameras will be still working as well in 60 years time,?
Richard
GeorgeH
21st June 2011, 06:32 PM
Richard,
Hard to beat a Compur shutter. I have a Retina I, my first camera (bought used, I hasten to say) its shutter after a CLA in the mid '50s, still works properly. Sadly when I put it away at some point I left a finger print on the lens which has etched the uncoated Ektar.
I find it hard to believe that many if any of the current crop will last that long, certainly the digital crop will probably fail, and who will be able to fix them? Bad circuit boards are swapped out, I don't think there's any practical way to replace surface mounted components.
When in the mid '80s I bought a new turntable or record deck, as you folk across the pond put it, I intentionally chose a belt driven, strictly manual Acoustic Research ES-1. Just oil the turntable bearing yearly and replace the belt every 2 or 3 years. No electronics to fail. Happily the deck has actually appreciated; I could sell it for perhaps 2 or 3 times what I paid. Of course as an investment that's a sorry return for 30 plus years!
And the beauty of a Voiglander or a Werra or the other collectible cameras is that they may appreciate, and in the mean time we have the pleasure of using them.
Richard Gould
21st June 2011, 09:03 PM
George,
I have cameras with both compur,(3 retinas including a 1), a voightlander vito 1, a Zeiss Ikon Contina folder and of course my 2 rolleis, and several with the prontor shutter,4 with the English made Episilon shutter, and of course the 2 werras with the prestor shutter, and in all honesty, apart from the 500 on the compur and 750 on the prestor,in the reliability stakes I have found little between them, apart from the fact that a Compur costs a bit more to cla, but they are all clockwork, so once they are running properly you just need to exercise them regulaly and they just seem to keep buzzing along happily year after year,and they can be repaired by competent repair people, of which there are a few left, I actually like the sound of them, they are so quite,people are often so surprised when I take the camera from myt eye when taking their picture that they have not heard a thing,
Richard
GeorgeH
21st June 2011, 09:31 PM
Richard,
Quiet is the operative word! The Vitessa and my Retina IIIc are virtually inaudible from only a few feet. Most of us are so used to the sound of mirrors moving that a leaf shutter surprises folk. I continue to be amused by the cell phone "cameras" which sound off in someone's concept of a shutter sound.
Richard Gould
22nd June 2011, 05:19 AM
George,
Your Retina must be loud!!!!!!!!!!! with mine it is one ofthe quitest camera I have, so quite that I often can't hear it when taking a picture, the only other camera that I struggle to hear is my Rolleiflex, also a Compur camera, Certainly, for some reason, compurs are quieter than prontors, but I love them all,
Richard
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