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View Full Version : recording exposure data (EXIF for us young'uns with dijikal)


Puggie
14th September 2011, 09:56 AM
How do you do this? I've been taking a camera phone snap of the lens and shutter then the scene so I can marry them up later, but also been thinking, would it be simpler just to write it on the darkslides in a white chinagraph pencil or similar once they are back in the holder (I wipe them all down with propanol before putting film in)?

I'm curious as to what do you all do?

Trevor Crone
14th September 2011, 10:26 AM
Hi Bill, hope you're having fun?:D

I number each darkslide, 1A 1B, 2A 2B, etc., and simply note this in a small note-book against exposure along with any development requirements, N, N-, N+. I did treat myself to a small voice recorder some years back with the intention of just recording the information, and of course such facilities are common place on todays phones. However I'm very much analogue so still prefer to view my written notes. Just seems easier for me to look at them when I'm back in the darkroom processing the film:)

Steve O
14th September 2011, 10:28 AM
I shoot mainly rollfilm and write down details of each shot in a small notebook. I tried other methods but this is the easiest and involves very little technology :)

Steve

Steve Smith
14th September 2011, 11:08 AM
I used to try to record this information, but as I didn't do anything with it, I don't bother now.


Steve.

peterlg
14th September 2011, 12:33 PM
when I record it's on paper but most ofte I don't record anything and then Regret I did'nt do it:slap:
peter

DebraW
14th September 2011, 12:55 PM
I've never thought of snapping with a phone. I have tried voice recordings but I found transcribing it a chore that I never got around to.

My best success has been with a little notebook, but like others, I've often forgotten to make the notes, or neglected to use them afterwards.

Now that I've started making prints I can see the the benefit of having this information so I'm resolving to make the effort.

big paul
14th September 2011, 01:14 PM
I have never seen the point of recording exposure data.
when you have, what do you do with it, considering every situation is different.

cliveh
14th September 2011, 07:47 PM
recording exposure data.

Why?

Rob Archer
14th September 2011, 08:12 PM
I used to record absolutely everything in a little book, such as filtration, exposure, weather conditions etc. but rarely ever looked at it again so I don't bother at all. I do put a sticker on the exposed film (or cannister if it's 35mm) detailing development requirements. (N-,N,or N+) depending on conditions.

Rob

Trevor Crone
14th September 2011, 08:16 PM
recording exposure data.

Why?

For me this is really a throw-back to the time when I was supplying material to the photographic press who wanted exposure details, lens, film, etc. But I must confess it is really of little use in itself. Far more useful is recording processing information, N, N-, N+. I also record any camera movements used, rising front, tilt, etc., should I need to re-shoot I then have as much information to allow me to accurately repeat the shot.

Steve Smith
14th September 2011, 08:37 PM
I have never seen any value in recording shooting information. i.e. I have never looked at a negative and wanted to know what the exposure settings were.

Conversely, I wish I could be bothered to write down details when I make prints but I never remember to do this either!


Steve.

Steve_F
15th September 2011, 06:34 AM
When I first started photography as something more than point & shoot I used write exposure, exp. Comp etc down as I learnt on slide film (an unforgiving mistress), then I looked at the images and learnt from my mistakes.

Steve.

Steve_F
15th September 2011, 06:38 AM
I shoot mainly rollfilm and write down details of each shot in a small notebook. I tried other methods but this is the easiest and involves very little technology :)

Steve

That reminds me of an old joke that went along the lines of "NASA spent $5m on developing a pen that wrote upside down, in a vacuum, at extreme temperatures and underwater...the Russians used a pencil."

:)

Steve.

Dave miller
15th September 2011, 06:48 AM
That reminds me of an old joke that went along the lines of "NASA spent $5m on developing a pen that wrote upside down, in a vacuum, at extreme temperatures and underwater...the Russians used a pencil."

:)

Steve.

I think the joke may have been that it wasn't a joke.:D

arcr1
15th September 2011, 08:19 AM
Apparently, both NASA and the Soviets started out using pencils, but there were concerns about the risks of (electrically conductive) graphite fragments flying around in zero-gravity. They also used chinagraph pencils, felt-tips and ordinary ball-points. Both later adopted the Fisher "Space-pen" which had been developed speculatively, with private finance...

See, for example: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen

but back to recording details of exposure etc...

I usually record printing details meticulously (using pencil and paper!), but then hardly ever refer to them, while I often wish that I'd recorded information at the point of film exposure.

Why? So that I'd know whether an unsharp negative was caused by too long a shutter-speed or just missing focus, or at what aperture my 28-80mm zoom renders out of focus highlights acceptably in real conditions, or what I was doing to cause a whole series of negatives on a film to be differently exposed to the rest on the same film.

Andrew

Phil
15th September 2011, 03:15 PM
Ikea pencils and paper. I record everything except 35mm (which would take all day :))
It all gets transferred to notebooks along with development data and so on . . .I kind of like looking back over it at times, and it has proved very handy when I wanted to duplicate a look (film and developer combo). I suppose most people would call it nuts ;)
Phil

Michael
15th September 2011, 04:58 PM
Place, date and time of day are all useful to record; so they go into a rough notebook. I do also record full shooting details but, like most others, am unconvinced of their archival value.

I think it's also useful to number negatives/transparencies as they're stored; so those numbers end up in the notebook too. BUT - I am a retired librarian.

RichardWarom
16th September 2011, 04:04 AM
I also record in a note book date,time etc then transfer it to an excel table, I do this for large and medium format. The reason I do this is to make me slow down and really consider what I am doing as I tend to rush a bit. It does work for me.
Richard

Martin Aislabie
17th September 2011, 09:40 AM
How do you do this? I've been taking a camera phone snap of the lens and shutter then the scene so I can marry them up later, but also been thinking, would it be simpler just to write it on the darkslides in a white chinagraph pencil or similar once they are back in the holder (I wipe them all down with propanol before putting film in)?

I'm curious as to what do you all do?

My Darkslides have a small white pained strip on each side them

If they require special development, or contain film other than HP5, then I write it in pencil on the painted strip.

A piece of masking tape may serve a similar purpose.

I don't bother with the time and date (I file my Negs as Location ????????? - Late April 2011 etc)

Martin

EddieB
23rd September 2011, 07:11 PM
I used to record exposure and location details for medium format and 5x4, but I never seemed to refer to it after the event. Nowadays I don't bother.

Like Martin, I file my negs with the location and date. That seems enough to jog my memory - even if it's not down to the aperture and shutter speed.

I do record filtration / exposure / burn / dodge details for final prints, though - as a future guide just. After all, you never know when fame will strike and I'm overrun with people clamouring for one of my limited editions (severely limited, according to some...):D

JamesK
27th September 2011, 10:24 PM
Having a few dexterity problems, I found handling a pencil and notebook as well as the camera and lenses a bit of a fiddle, so I bought a voice recorder.

Although I don't always record every exposure setting of the camera, what I do find valuable to do is to record how I metered the shot, i.e. "spot reading on bright grass", "metered from left-hand side", etc. which gives me an indication of which method worked best under the circumstances.

dsallen
29th September 2011, 12:59 PM
The only notes that I make are the location (street name) of where I made the image. I never used to do this but, although I do not make documentary images, with time many of my urban landscapes acquire a documentary side to them as buildings are renovated / replaced. This has been pretty rapid in East Berlin over the past 20 odd years.

No one has ever bought one of my photographs because I can tell them in which street the photo was made. However, when they have bought an image they liked, they seem to appreciate knowing where it was made.

The location information has also helped me to get work into some group exhibitions that concentrate on the recent history of Berlin.

As to recording technical information, I like many others, did it for a while and never used the information. With film / developer this is because it is always the same combination. With exposure is is f-whatever is needed for depth of field requirements @ whatever the corresponding speed is. With prints, the information became redundant as papers changed (come back Forte Polywarmtone please!!!) and I discovered that I much prefer to reinterpret each negative whenever I needed a new print.

Happy photography.

Martin Aislabie
29th September 2011, 05:57 PM
Although I don't always record every exposure setting of the camera, what I do find valuable to do is to record how I metered the shot, i.e. "spot reading on bright grass", "metered from left-hand side", etc. which gives me an indication of which method worked best under the circumstances.

I agree this is far more useful information to have than the settings you happened to end up with.

When you look at the Negs you can see what metering techniques worked and which didn't

Martin

JamesK
30th September 2011, 10:48 PM
I agree this is far more useful information to have than the settings you happened to end up with.

When you look at the Negs you can see what metering techniques worked and which didn't

Martin

As other people have mentioned, I always used to record every exposure setting, but realised that this was in a sense a pointless, as, of course, light levels change all the time. I still do it from time to time, and always record such details when using flash as I don't have a lot of experience with this kind of photography.

I find that making a note of how / what I'm metering gives me a far better idea of how to get repeatable results.

As an aside, a friend once had some photographs published in a camera magazine. When he told them he didn't know what exposure settings he'd used, the magazine told him to make some up..............

Onform
13th January 2013, 08:47 PM
I am very new to this but at the risk of getting shot down in flames:mob:. I have just downloaded an app onto my Iphone called Zone system companion (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/zone-system-companion/id400137925?mt=8)

Using Zone System Companion, a photographer can:

- Rapidly enter the traditional Zone System data
- Identify the geographic location of each shot with a pin on a map
- Describe each shot with both text and a voice recording
- Document each shot further with an iPhone/iPod photo of the subject
- Set defaults for camera, lens, f-stop, shutter speed, film and development adjustment
- Generate a report listing all information for each shot in a shooting session
- Include the iPhone/iPod photograph and voice recording in the generated report
- Export the shooting session report to the computer for use as a darkroom reference

So just a digital note pad really but with added features all in a neat package. Not bad considering I would always have my phone with me anyway..

MikeHeller
14th January 2013, 11:44 AM
I use a small notebook and always have since being in Greenland in my youf and I had to slow down my usage of film as it was expensive and had to be exported (to avoid Purchase Tax). I then used to transfer the info to notebooks, which were useful for telling me where and when the photo was taken.
Exposure info was recorded out of habit and has occasionally been referred to.
Since the advent of PCs the information is tansferred to a self developed relational database - Lotus Approach - where I also record what I do with prints from the neg. as I have illegible handwriting. I could also record the enlarging protocol (burning & dodging but that is recorded on cards because of development time, laziness and PC memory considerations - not so much of problem nowadays).
Am I sad or am I sad? All part of the fun!
Mike

Roy_H
16th January 2013, 10:24 PM
This topic featured a lot in my thoughts today.

I spent it researching the Edwin Smith (http://www.fine-photographs.co.uk/index.php/photographers/es) collection of photographs at the Royal Institute of British Architects (where his archive of ~60,000 negatives resides).
Smith kept notebooks that he called 'daybooks'. In these, from 1950 until his death in 1971, he recorded the following information for all his large format negatives:

DATE:TIME:WEATHER:SUBJECT:FILM:FILM HOLDER No.:LENS USED:APERTURE:FILTER:EXPOSURE TIME:REMARKS:RESULT

He did this assiduously for 21 years, although the last book is a bit sparse as he was very ill. He did keep working up until a few weeks before he died though.

For anyone researching his working methods and equipment, as I am, this information is invaluable.
Unfortunately he did not record information about his roll film negatives, just the mere 13,000+ large format ones...:)

My own records of my large format work from the 1980s were less precise, but included proposed development details (N-, N or N+). These are equally valuable now though in that they recorded dates and places long forgotten.

So I guess the answer is to record whatever you feel is useful, but if you think someone is likely to want to write about your work in forty years time please be precise!

Matt: I'm going to give that iPhone App a try, but I have a feeling that I'll still prefer a notebook and pencil - except in freezing weather and a strong wind! As for other Apps, The Photographer's Ephemeris (http://photoephemeris.com/) can be useful, if you're into landscapey things.

DaveP
16th January 2013, 10:49 PM
I am very new to this but at the risk of getting shot down in flames:mob:. I have just downloaded an app onto my Iphone called Zone system companion (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/zone-system-companion/id400137925?mt=8)

Using Zone System Companion, a photographer can:

- Rapidly enter the traditional Zone System data
- Identify the geographic location of each shot with a pin on a map
- Describe each shot with both text and a voice recording
- Document each shot further with an iPhone/iPod photo of the subject
- Set defaults for camera, lens, f-stop, shutter speed, film and development adjustment
- Generate a report listing all information for each shot in a shooting session
- Include the iPhone/iPod photograph and voice recording in the generated report
- Export the shooting session report to the computer for use as a darkroom reference

So just a digital note pad really but with added features all in a neat package. Not bad considering I would always have my phone with me anyway..

Thanks for pointing that out, looks handy.

What do you have to do with this to sync that information which you've input back onto your computer?

Onform
17th January 2013, 08:08 PM
This topic featured a lot in my thoughts today.

I spent it researching the Edwin Smith (http://www.fine-photographs.co.uk/index.php/photographers/es) collection of photographs at the Royal Institute of British Architects (where his archive of ~60,000 negatives resides).
Smith kept notebooks that he called 'daybooks'. In these, from 1950 until his death in 1971, he recorded the following information for all his large format negatives:

DATE:TIME:WEATHER:SUBJECT:FILM:FILM HOLDER No.:LENS USED:APERTURE:FILTER:EXPOSURE TIME:REMARKS:RESULT

He did this assiduously for 21 years, although the last book is a bit sparse as he was very ill. He did keep working up until a few weeks before he died though.

For anyone researching his working methods and equipment, as I am, this information is invaluable.
Unfortunately he did not record information about his roll film negatives, just the mere 13,000+ large format ones...:)

My own records of my large format work from the 1980s were less precise, but included proposed development details (N-, N or N+). These are equally valuable now though in that they recorded dates and places long forgotten.

So I guess the answer is to record whatever you feel is useful, but if you think someone is likely to want to write about your work in forty years time please be precise!

Matt: I'm going to give that iPhone App a try, but I have a feeling that I'll still prefer a notebook and pencil - except in freezing weather and a strong wind! As for other Apps, The Photographer's Ephemeris (http://photoephemeris.com/) can be useful, if you're into landscapey things.

I have the Ephemeris app too... Very useful if you need to know exactly what day and time the sun will rise in particularly photogenic location.

Thanks for pointing that out, looks handy.

What do you have to do with this to sync that information which you've input back onto your computer?

Pleasure,.. I have not had chance to use it in anger yet though so I really don't know sorry :D

Adrian
18th January 2013, 12:43 PM
That App sounds good - I wish I had an Iphone. Does anyone know if it is availble for Blackberries?

I use a small note-book. I record film carrier number, exposure details, development (N-1/N/N+1) and usually metering details (zones, SBR). I find the information is useful to help learn photography - and I have a *lot* to learn. The most useful information to me is the development and metering details which does help with developing the films and printing.

photomi7ch
18th January 2013, 06:26 PM
I used to be a note book man when I started out so I could learn from my mistakes as others have done. but it has fallen by the way side only to be taken up again when I started using a pin hole camera again so I could ajust exposure from my mistakes. I have found it does not take me to many rolls of film to get the hang of things.
As for the app it sound like a good idea. The only problerm I have with it is when do you get the time to take any pictures :)

DaveP
21st January 2013, 08:07 AM
I am very new to this but at the risk of getting shot down in flames:mob:. I have just downloaded an app onto my Iphone called Zone system companion (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/zone-system-companion/id400137925?mt=8)

Using Zone System Companion, a photographer can:

- Rapidly enter the traditional Zone System data
- Identify the geographic location of each shot with a pin on a map
- Describe each shot with both text and a voice recording
- Document each shot further with an iPhone/iPod photo of the subject
- Set defaults for camera, lens, f-stop, shutter speed, film and development adjustment
- Generate a report listing all information for each shot in a shooting session
- Include the iPhone/iPod photograph and voice recording in the generated report
- Export the shooting session report to the computer for use as a darkroom reference

So just a digital note pad really but with added features all in a neat package. Not bad considering I would always have my phone with me anyway..

Anyone using this on an iphone4? I downloaded it yesterday and when you try and add a shot it crashes. As a Yorkshireman it galls me to have spent two quid fifty on this....:rolleyes::slap:.I hope its just a bug they can fix.

DaveP
21st January 2013, 02:11 PM
Ok panic over, managed to get it working by re-installing.

JKeys
29th January 2013, 04:15 PM
Never wrote down the settings esp with LF, its like if I cant remember the settings from about four frames Then there must be something wrong...Though it does get trickery nowadays, Perhaps this obsession with settings is the way to sterile photography as opposed to the actual emotive content of the photo....

DaveP
29th January 2013, 06:24 PM
Or maybe its just a way of troubleshooting problems/errors you might make, so you can learn from them.