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GeorgeGiralt
21st December 2011, 06:03 AM
Hello !
I'm a big fan of this paper developer because it gives cool tones on my favourites papers.
And, I'm been given a whole bunch of photochemical from a fellow photographer gone digital. Poor him. ...
So I plan to use the chemicals, and start with paper development.
Does anybody have the formula for my favourite brew ?
Many thanks in advance.
Best regards.

Argentum
21st December 2011, 07:07 AM
Hello !
I'm a big fan of this paper developer because it gives cool tones on my favourites papers.
And, I'm been given a whole bunch of photochemical from a fellow photographer gone digital. Poor him. ...
So I plan to use the chemicals, and start with paper development.
Does anybody have the formula for my favourite brew ?
Many thanks in advance.
Best regards.

I'm just guessing here but it looks like it might be similar to Ilford ID62

Ilford ID-62

STOCK SOLUTION
Warm Water (125 F or 52C) - 750.0 ml
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) - 50.0 grams
Hydroquinone - 12.0 grams
Sodium Carbonate (desiccated) - 60.0 grams
Phenidone - 0.5 grams
Potassium Bromide - 2.0 grams
Benzotriazole - 0.2 grams
Add cold water to make - 1.0 liter

For use with contact papers, dilute 1:1 and develop 45 to 60 seconds.
For use with enlarging papers, dilute 1:3 and develop 1-1/2 to 2 minutes.
For tray development of films and plates, dilute 1:3 and develop 2 to 4 minutes.
For tank development, dilute 1:7 and develop for 4 to 8 minutes.

I don't think its actual formula is in the public domain but others may know differently.

Also look at the ilford warmtone developer ID78.

Water, 125F/52C 750 ml
Phenidone 0.5 g
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 50 g
Hydroquinone 12 g
Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous) 62 g
Potassium Bromide 4.5 g
Cold water to make 1L

Dilute 1 part of the above stock solution with one part of water and develop for 1
minute at 68 F (20 C). For longer development times, dilute 1 part of stock solution
with 3 parts of water and develop for 2 minutes at 68 F (20 C).

You will see the differences between the two developers which are the amount of bromide and benzotirazole. So by playing with those values you should be able to warm up the ID62 to taste (I think) or go the whole way and start with ID78 and cool it down by playing with Bormide values.

GeorgeGiralt
21st December 2011, 07:27 AM
Hello
As far as I know, ID62 is Ilford PQ. It is suitable for film and papers, Bromophen, on the other hand is only stated suitable for papers.
I made a mistake posting this here instead of chemical formulas. If someone can move it, it would be beneficial for the forum. thanks.

Argentum
21st December 2011, 09:41 AM
Hello
As far as I know, ID62 is Ilford PQ. It is suitable for film and papers, Bromophen, on the other hand is only stated suitable for papers.
I made a mistake posting this here instead of chemical formulas. If someone can move it, it would be beneficial for the forum. thanks.

You may be correct but Ilford say that PQ print developer is a dimezone-s/hydroquinone developer whereas Bromophen is a phenidone/hydroquinone developer.

I don't see dimezone-s listed in ID62 but I'm no chemist. So you may want to research just what exactly dimezone-s actually is and whether it's in ID62 cos if it isn't then ID62 isn't PQ developer.

Stocky
21st December 2011, 10:52 AM
Dimezone-S is a better version of phenidone, better because it dissolves fast and keeps better in solution.

Les McLean
21st December 2011, 11:55 AM
Hello !
I'm a big fan of this paper developer because it gives cool tones on my favourites papers.
And, I'm been given a whole bunch of photochemical from a fellow photographer gone digital. Poor him. ...
So I plan to use the chemicals, and start with paper development.
Does anybody have the formula for my favourite brew ?
Many thanks in advance.
Best regards.

I've used this formula for Bromophen for many years. It was given to me by a friend, sadly not with us now, who made all his own print and paper developers.


To make stock solution

1 Litre water
Sod Metabisulphite 1.25gr
Sod Sulphite 50gr
Hydroquinone 12gr
Sod Carbonate 60 gr
Pot Bromide 2.0gr or 5cc 10% solution
Phenidone 0.5gr

Working solution 1 part stock to 3 parts water.

I'd suggest that you also experiment with different dilutions to make both stronger and weaker working solutions to achieve different results.

Have fun

vanannan
21st December 2011, 12:19 PM
I keep a stock of raw chemicals in order to make up developers etc which are unavailable in the UK or at all ie Ansco 130, in my opinion it is not worth the hassle of making up Bromophen (which I use) I prefer to purchase the prepacked stuff, it is fairly inexpensive in fact it is possibly cheaper than making up your own?

Dave miller
21st December 2011, 02:56 PM
Phenidone and Dimezone-S have slightly different molecular structures, but I have no idea if it is sufficient to make a difference. Check them here (http://www.chemblink.com).

GeorgeGiralt
21st December 2011, 03:36 PM
Helo !
Thanks for the formulas. I'll try them next week and see what I get.
As I use either Bromophen or PQ, I'll think I'll be satisfied by the results. Bromophen undiluted gives so cold tones it's icy !
As per the price, I've got the chemicals for free. So it will be difficult to beat !

Argentum
22nd December 2011, 11:38 AM
As you can see the formula Les gives is very similar to ID62. It is minus the benzotrizole which is anti foggant but has added sodium metabisulphite which is an anti oxidant. The differences are subtle but one may be easier to adjust than the other. I'd go with the version Les gives as you can get some knowledgeable help with it.;)

Stocky
22nd December 2011, 09:39 PM
Phenidone and Dimezone-S have slightly different molecular structures, but I have no idea if it is sufficient to make a difference. Check them here (http://www.chemblink.com).

There have been at least 4 commercial versions of phenidone:

Phenidone A, phenidone B, dimezone, dimezone-S.

They are all photographically phenidone. Dimezone-S has the advantages i mentioned above.

I have read confusing opinions about whether they are equivalent weight for weight. Dimezone-S is a slightly heavier molecule (206 instead of 162) so i think a reasonable substitution is to use 1.27g of dimezone-S instead of 1g of phenidone. This is just a guess on my part. Some writers over at pure-silver think a little more is needed. I doubt that it's critical.

Mike O'Pray
22nd December 2011, 11:06 PM
[QUOTE=GeorgeGiralt;62216]Helo !
Bromophen undiluted gives so cold tones it's icy !
QUOTE]

Given that Ilford stopped making its CT developer that's an interesting finding. The standard description of it suggests that at 1+3 it gives a neutral to warm effect.

I wonder what makes it so "icy" at stock. Nice that it has this property although at stock it becomes a more expensive developer but versatility is always likely to have a cost, I suppose

Mike

Argentum
23rd December 2011, 12:31 PM
I think the liquid versions of chemicals are often different from the published formulas since they need to be very stable and not prone to oxidation because of the required shelf life. For that reason they will often have additives in them that the published formulas don't.

Also names such as Dektol or PQ Universal are not guarantees of a particular formula. Dektol formula mixed from powder doesn't keep too well and the liquid version of Dektol is supposed to be polymax print developer. i.e. the names of developers sold in liquid form are brand names only and not formulas.

GeorgeGiralt
28th December 2011, 11:21 PM
Hello !
I've made today 1.25 l of the "brew" Les McLean gave to us.
for me it looks like Bromophen, as far as I can tell from a couple prints.
My main problem was that my carbonate is crystalline and had caked; It took me a long time returning it to powder and mixing it. (I've of course taken into account the 10* H2O embedded into the carbonate to make it crystalline !)
So thanks to all of you !

Argentum
29th December 2011, 05:46 PM
keep us posted on how this formula works for you.

GeorgeGiralt
29th December 2011, 08:21 PM
Argentum,
For what I can tell, the first batch was perfect and the prints looks as expected.
I can't tell the shelf life because I mixed the exact amount for an extended printing session and §it went to the sewer at the end of the session.
I'm quite satisfied with the "brew". My only problem is the Phenidone 0.2 % solution I've made which has returned to deposit at the bottom of the bottle ! (the method I used came from the Darkroom cookbook, and was made in water with a pinch of sodium Metabisulfite). Since, I've learned that I can make a 2% solution using alcohol and keep it "forever".
P.S. : Next year ;-) I plan to print again a print I know very well with it and compare with the original.

Keith Tapscott.
30th December 2011, 12:58 PM
Bromophen was (is?) the primary recommendation for Multigrade Warmtone paper before Ilford introduced their own Warmtone liquid developer, so ID-78 might be closer to Bromophen, but we can never be sure because the formula for Bromophen has never been publicly revealed.

Lostlabours
22nd November 2020, 05:51 PM
I know it's an old thread but it contains a mistake or two.

Bromophen was originally sold as a replacement for ID-20 PQ, itself a replacement for ID-20 an MQ developer a powder developer. However there were issues with coloour shifts with some paper as it was used and the bromide level increase. It has a greater capacity a longer tray life compared to the original MQ version.

To get around this ID-20 PQ was reformulated as ID-62 adding Benzotriazole in place of half the Bromide, this kept prints neutral. Then the issue was Benzotriazole doesn't dissolve easily so you couldn't sell DD-62 as a powder developer.

Instead it was further reformulated switching from Sodium to Potassium Carbonate and some Sodium Carbonate allowing greater concentration as a Liquid Developer.

Because of the increased warmth noticed in ID-62 PQ this was tweaked to become Ilford ID-78 once sold as a warm tone PQ powder developer. In more recent years that formulae was revived and changed to become a concentrate and is sold as Harman Warmtone developer. It's likely they cut the Bromide in Bromophen to 2g (per litre of stock) otherwiseit would nave been virtually as warm toned as ID78.

The formula Les McLean lists has Sodium Metabisulphte, that's in Part A of Bromophen is just a preservative and forms Sulphite when mixed in solution with Part B. Les lists it to make 500ml which is double the normal strength and that will cause solubility issues.

Ian

Mike O'Pray
22nd November 2020, 07:07 PM
I have bought but not yet made up to stock solution, Bromophen, forgetting I admit, George's comment all those years ago about it being so cold as to be icy at stock.

I certainly didn't buy it for its icy qualities so I can only hope that at 1+3 it behaves as Ilford suggests it does which is neutral to slightly warm

Mike