PDA

View Full Version : Two Bath Developers - The Problem?


CarlRadford
22nd January 2009, 06:01 PM
I have read somewhere that one of the major issues with two bath developers is that this just tends to compress the mid-tones making the resultant prints look somewhat flat and dull! Problem is I can't seem to find where I have read this - book, magazine or web! Any thoughts?

Cheers, Carl

Argentum
22nd January 2009, 07:02 PM
Sounds wrong to me. You can't just compress midtones without either or both expanding the shadows and highlights. I think that generally a two bath developer will expand the shadow separation whilst restraining the highlights and midtones, so the result is a negative which has good shadow to mid tone separation. BUT what you actually end up with is totally dependant on the contrast separation in the subject. So in actuality you need to consider which developer and how it will look given your subject contrast range and importantly your subject contrast distribution in order to know whether the mid tones or shadows or highlights will have the separation you require for printing.

Barry
22nd January 2009, 07:31 PM
I have yet to do any detailed experiments with two bath developers. However it seems to me that suppressed mid-tone's should only occur if the developer is allow to over compensate for the shadows?

Peter Hogan
22nd January 2009, 08:06 PM
You always need to do your testes for your own personal times, of course, but two bath development will always prevent over development of the highlights whilst allowing the shadows to build. This may or may not result in compressed midtones depending on your negative and your subjective view.

Rob Archer
22nd January 2009, 10:03 PM
I use 2-bath developers quite a bit, mainly Stoecklers. I have'nt found compression of mid tones a problem. In fact I think the tonal separation is better, particularly in the lower mid-tones (zones IV to V if you're that way inclined!). I suspect it could be a problem, though if exposure was too little. I usually expose at least a stop extra if I'm using 2-bath.

As an aside I find they work much better on older-style films like Panf+ than with Delta or TMax types, although Im not scientific enough to know why!

I shall be posting some scans of prints from 2-bath negs soon, so watch this space.

Rob

Mike O'Pray
22nd January 2009, 10:13 PM
[QUOTE=Peter Hogan;5540]You always need to do your testes for your own personal times, /QUOTE]

Peter I'd avoid doing your testes:shock: if I were you. It's unlikely to help with photography or in other matters in life:D:D:D

Sorry couldn't resist

Mike

CarlRadford
22nd January 2009, 10:16 PM
Got this info on another site:

You must remember that higher standards are in the eyes of the beholder, and may even vary by conditions or the subject being photographed. For example, compensating development with dilute developers has its own effect. As Thornton wrote: "The effect is not the same as the well known technique of compensating development by diluting developers, which does work in holding back dense highlights, but can give muddy mid tones and does not have the same automatic contrast equalisation as the two bath." If you want to avoid compression of midtones while still retaining detail in the highlights, a two bath might be superior for your purposes.

The reason for this is that I am just about to return to a 35mm rangefinder and want to get as close to box speed as possible. I currently use pyrocat hd almost exclusively for sheet film and 120 but then the camera is attached to the tripod and speed not such an issue. I'd really like to keep to just a couple of developers to brew my film. Familiarity and all that!

Mike O'Pray
22nd January 2009, 10:56 PM
Sorry folks. My reply wasn't so good to be named twice as they say in a famous song. I must have pressed the submit button twice by mistake

Mike - a computer illiterate

Peter Hogan
23rd January 2009, 07:57 PM
Nice one Mike...

Bob
26th January 2009, 03:15 PM
Mike (and all) - you have a short time in which to delete (or edit) a post after posting it if you notice you made a mistake like that (currently 1 hour).