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AlanJones
4th April 2012, 12:06 AM
I need to come up with another charger for my flash so I will ask the usual question that has anyone got one they no longer need. But in reality I wonder if someone can let me know the output voltage (thought to be 6V dc) and current (this will be in A amps or milliamperes mA) just in case I need to go to Maplin or Tandy for a substitute. This information is likely to be found on the charger casing itself or a sticker attached to it. The sticker on my unit is missing.

Dave miller
4th April 2012, 07:15 AM
I have a 45 CT-3 and the charger (type 703) output is 7volts at 400mA. Does that help? First time I've come across a 7v charger.

Steve Smith
4th April 2012, 10:24 AM
If I remember correctly, the battery pack is five 1.2v ni-cads so their total voltage is 6 volts.

That being the case, the charger voltage will need to be higher to allow current to flow into them so 7v sounds about right.


Steve.

AlanJones
4th April 2012, 06:08 PM
Thanks for the replies.

The instruction manual identifies the part number needed as being B 27 and states that it will charge both battery options. That is Ni-Cad and the far heavier acid/gel battery being the one I unfortunately have. It weighs about 2kgs, looks like a motorbike battery and is worn on a bandoleer. There is no mention as to output voltage or current. The later is the problem as too low a charging current the battery will not fully charge and give a wrong impression that the battery is worn out. Too much current can cause overheating and damage the battery.

Prior to doing my post, I was told that all parts were not available from the distributor as they had not been made for a while. I have contacted them and requested confirmation or to let me have the information I need. I am still waiting for my reply.......

Matt Quinn
4th April 2012, 10:35 PM
If I may...

I seem to recall being told (I haven't confirmed it for myself) that the CT60 and CT/CL45 power supplies were interchangeable – and yes 7V, with a maximum capacity of 0.45A does ring bells – However!

I believe the output from these supplies is A.C. – NOT D.C. as you might reasonably suppose at first. If Dave will be kind enough to confirm that the 7V on his supply is followed by a ~ symbol; that is what this indicates...

I tend to use my own ‘45’s’ with either a quantum pack or dry cells; so sadly don’t have a Metz pack or supply handy to examine – but I do recall considering re-celling one of the Ni-Cd packs, and on disassembly vaguely noting the crude rectifier arrangements (diodes) within the pack...

I think the battery you have is simply a 6V 4.5 AH Sealed Lead Acid cell – Which is removable from the ‘pack’ you carry it around in? The pack has a switch somewhere to select the type of battery? – Which is set to the ‘PB’ position? Am I right?

- I think the ‘charger’ is actually within the pack, and simply requires 7V AC...

The B27 unit is not, if I recall correctly, a charger in its own right. Rather it replicates the charging circuitry that is within the shoulder mounted battery pack – the idea being that a B27 allows you to charge a spare battery (using your own power supply/charger) while keeping the gun itself in use; you swap your cells in and out the pack... So that on its own will not solve your problem.

As for charging - As the load, the battery ‘draws’ a certain amount of current rather than having it ‘pushed’ though it – It’s a simple function of Ohm’s law – and the current drawn is essentially a function of the battery’s internal resistance... (I = V/R) Some form of current limiting IS necessary with Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries – But that is a function of the charging circuitry within the battery case...

So – what is important is the 7V AC output... Whether it’s capable of supplying .45A or 45A makes no difference – essentially the circuit will only ‘draw’ what its overall resistance allows –

I believe the supply you need is a ‘728’ - And I think hunting on one of the auction sites might be an option. – Tandy shut down years ago AFAIK – And Maplins may be able to supply a ‘bare’ transformer; but this could quickly turn into a bit of a project as it would need cased – and you’d need the connector to the battery box too; which is a Metz item – not generic.

Then there IS the point that the actual condition of the battery may be very much in doubt? What is its history? SLAs were once the mainstay of the video production industry – not common now, not least because these cells are by no means ‘friends for life’...

Dave miller
5th April 2012, 07:04 AM
I confirm that the 7V on his supply is followed by a sine wave (~) symbol; the relevance of which did not register when I first looked.

Steve Smith
5th April 2012, 09:16 AM
So 7v rectified internally gives about 9.2v DC.

If it is full wave rectified internally, a 9v DC power supply would work. If I can find mine (which no longer charges properly) I will take it apart and see what's inside.

I suspect that it will be half wave rectified (because it's cheaper). A 9v DC supply will still work but it will need to be connected the right way round (although no damage will occur the wrong way).


Steve.

Matt Quinn
5th April 2012, 12:42 PM
So 7v rectified internally gives about 9.2v DC.

If it is full wave rectified internally, a 9v DC power supply would work. If I can find mine (which no longer charges properly) I will take it apart and see what's inside.

I suspect that it will be half wave rectified (because it's cheaper). A 9v DC supply will still work but it will need to be connected the right way round (although no damage will occur the wrong way).


Steve.

No damage would occur, no... Not an idea solution though imho...

I do seem to recall finding only a single diode in the '45' pack; not a bridge; but it is quite a long time since I looked at one of these. - I remember thinking what a VERY crude way to charge/treat a Ni-Cd!

- However, if seeking a substitute for any such supply; would it not make sense to simply remove the rectification circuit from the PSU? - And allow the Metz circuitry ro function as intended? - Which still leaves us with the issue of the connector to the pack of course; if that is to remain unmodified.

One possible approach being to simply solder the lead off an old Metz supply in place of that attached to the generic 'wallwart' one is pressing into service...

I am also fairly sure that either Farnell or Radio Spares do an empty 'wallwart' case for building custom supplies in - again though; this is turning into an electronics project and may not be the best direction unless one has the requisite engineering skills...

Then of course there is the battery itself - if an original Metz SLA it must be quite elderly by now - and probably in need of replacement.

It would be quite interesting to find a way forwards with this - as there must be quite a few of these units 'out there' which could be pressed into use but for the lack of a suitable power supply...

Steve Smith
5th April 2012, 12:48 PM
However, if seeking a substitute for any such supply; would it not make sense to simply remove the rectification circuit from the PSU? - And allow the Metz circuitry ro function as intended?

No. It would make more sense to leave it in there as it would protect against accidently connecting the power supply the wrong way round if it is half wave rectified and if it was full wave rectified, the polarity of the power supply would be irrelevant.

Also it would still work if an original 7v AC supply was found.


Steve.

Matt Quinn
5th April 2012, 12:55 PM
No. It would make more sense to leave it in there as it would protect against accidently connecting the power supply the wrong way round if it is half wave rectified and if it was full wave rectified, the polarity of the power supply would be irrelevant.

Also it would still work if an original 7v AC supply was found.


Steve.

...If the rectification circuitry within the 'wallwart' is removed or by-passed the output is then AC - as it would be with the original Metz supply -

There is no wrong way round then...

Steve Smith
5th April 2012, 01:21 PM
Sorry, I was getting confused (it happens a lot!).

I thought you meant taking it out of the Metz unit.

If you bought a 9 volt DC supply and removed the smoothing and rectification, you would probably end up with a 6 to 7 volt AC supply.

However, I can't see any benefit in putting in the extra effort of removing it when the end result would be the same.


Steve.

Matt Quinn
5th April 2012, 01:38 PM
However, I can't see any benefit in putting in the extra effort of removing it when the end result would be the same.

- Simply my instinct is to keep things as close to original spec as possible :)

As it happens Maplin do seem to have an AC-AC 'wallwart' available...

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-ac-multi-voltage-1000ma-power-supply-43055

- The only problem now is the plug to fit the Metz...

Dave miller
5th April 2012, 02:43 PM
Is it possible to replace the cells?

dsallen
5th April 2012, 03:14 PM
By charger I presume you mean the power lead.

The simplest solution is to get an actual Metz one from fleebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metz-Ni-Cad-Battery-Charger-45s-And-60s-/140735473282?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_ CameraFlashUnits_JN&hash=item20c47ce682#ht_1107wt_1160

Best,

David
www.dsallen.de

Matt Quinn
5th April 2012, 03:54 PM
By charger I presume you mean the power lead.

The simplest solution is to get an actual Metz one from fleebay

I believe that does indeed seem the most satisfactory solution - :)

Dave - In general cells CAN be replaced with relative ease. I suspect this one will simply be a Sealed Lead Acid unit - Places like Maplin, Radiospares, Farnell etc sell them - it is simply a matter of getting one the right physical size, voltage - and approximate AH capacity...

Somewhat like replacing the battery in your car in fact!

Even for more complex packs, 'tagged cells' are normally available to rebuild them. And I seem to recall there were some chaps on Ebay a while back offering some sort of 'exchange' service on the Metz packs for the '45s

Steve Smith
5th April 2012, 04:44 PM
I have found my Metz Ni-Cad unit and taken it apart. It is quite simple consisting of a bridge rectifier (four discrete diodes) and a series connected light bulb which both indicates charge current and limits it at the same time.

This means that either the Maplin AC supply (linked above) set to 7.5v or a 9v DC supply will work equally as well.

My charger is No. 703, like this: http://www.photographyattic.com/img/flash/metz_703_charger.jpg

The Ni-Cad cells in mine are useless and I don't intend to replace them (I did that for my father a few years ago and it's a tedious job) so I have no use for the charger. If it's of any use to the O.P. I will sell it for approximately £0.00 - just pay for postage.

P.M. if interested.


Steve.

AlanJones
10th April 2012, 10:08 AM
I think a certain amount of confusion has crept into this topic and the best way forward is for me to get my kit photographed in the form of an attachment. I see the 'mountains' icon at the top of the Quick Reply panel, but my pictures when they are ready will not be on the web and no URL. Where do we go from here? Help will be needed in getting these images, hopefully by the weekend, on this area.

Regards

Dave miller
10th April 2012, 10:34 AM
I think a certain amount of confusion has crept into this topic and the best way forward is for me to get my kit photographed in the form of an attachment. I see the 'mountains' icon at the top of the Quick Reply panel, but my pictures when they are ready will not be on the web and no URL. Where do we go from here? Help will be needed in getting these images, hopefully by the weekend, on this area.

Regards

When using the dialog box click on the “Go Advance” button just underneath it, then scroll down a little way and click on the “Manage Attachment” button then use the "Browse" button to find your previously prepared picture. Details of what file size and type are on the same page.

AlanJones
12th April 2012, 08:36 PM
I now have three photos of my Metz equipment and hope this will go some of the way to clearing up any confusion.

Frame 1: shows the power pack showing where the lead acid battery fits in the centre of the picture. To the right of the picture is the battery and in both cases the contacts are visible at the top left and bottom right.

Frame 2: is a side view of the power pack. On the left hand side there is the power outlet to the flashgun. On the right hand side is the small square 7V AC, 450mAh charging input. Above this there are two light emitting diodes, red for charging and green for battery fully charged.

Frame 3: what it all looks like when it is ready for use, assuming a fully charged battery of course.


What I want out of this is to have a working flashgun with a '60 guide number' output without buying new as it will only get very limited use. Even if new spares existed, Intro 2020 Ltd, the Metz UK distributor, does not even want to talk to me as they want me to buy a reconditioned 45 for £325 or a new one. A lesson in economics. So I am determined to get round this now just for the hell of it!

I see my way forward now as being:
a) Find another transformer (charger) out being 7V~, 450mAh
b) Will Ni-Cad batteries and holder fit in to the space of the lead acid battery space in power pack with me doing something to align the contacts or can I come up with something else to touch contacts?
c) A 'project'. I think it best that if I undertake this that I have someone who is prepared to give advice and stand over me. Any offers?

Ebay: I have been looking for a couple of months now and not really seen anything. There is an advertiser in Romford, Essex, who has adverts running regularly but 'does not even know if his items work' in the 'Buy Now' categories. I don't want to get involved there, but will continue to watch.

dsallen
12th April 2012, 09:18 PM
The best battery for the Metz 60 is the Dry fit 60-28 which you can get now for £45 from many UK suppliers. This price is actually cheaper than what I paid for my spare some 7 years ago. there is also the new generation battery with charger from Malaysia.

There are plenty of chargers on FleaBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metz-Type-703-Mains-Charger-PSU-Metz-45-Flash-/220998214242?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_ CameraFlashUnits_JN&hash=item3374852262#ht_500wt_1155

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metz-Type-703-Mains-Charger-PSU-Metz-45-Flash-/220998215736?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_ CameraFlashUnits_JN&hash=item3374852838#ht_500wt_1155

Best,

David
www.dsallen.de

Matt Quinn
12th April 2012, 10:29 PM
Well...

Steve has been kind enough to offer a tranformer...

David is pretty much spot on with the battery replacement IMHO...

Aout the only improvement to that money wise is find a 6V SLA battery that fits in the box and with some deft soldering connect it up to the tabs with flying leads - You might get one out a cheap rechargeable lantern...

NiCds require a different charging 'routine' - And you'd need to make a pack up out of tagged cells - Assuming there is a 'NiCd' position on the battery holder.

Me? - I'd be buying Steve and David a beer...