Carbon Toners

[Martin Aislabie]

I have bought a couple of sample bottles from Wolfgang Moersch of Carbon Toner.

I saw some of his posts of Carbon Toned prints in "the other place" and had a look at his Web Site.

Before I jump in with both feet has anyone got any experience with Carbon Toners they would care to share?

Thanks :)

Martin

[Mike O'Pray]

Sorry Martin. None here but I'd be very interested in your experience. Wolfgang has a good site and range of chems and on the other site several people including me have suggested that he produces a book or large leaflets on toning but I think we'll have to wait a long time for this. It might be expensive for him.

Just a thought. Does Tim Rudman make any mention in his book on toning?

Mike

[Barry]

Martin,

Wolfgang has some great pdf's on his website (http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/) relating to toning, look for the link "Anleitungen", English at the bottom.

Unfortunately the carbon toning guide has not yet been translated into English. However the German guide has images and chemical ratio's that would give you a great start.

I would also be very interested in your results.

[Martin Aislabie]

Barry, I have looked long and hard through Wolfgangs web site and as you say there are some bits in English but most is German.

My German is none existent but have tried to work to what he is trying to say as best I can.

I figured there was nothing to loose by having a go but thought I would try and find if anyone has "been there, done that and got the tee shirt"

Mike - I am waiting on Tim Rudmans Toning book to arrive & will glean from that what I can before I get started

Thanks for the advice and suggestions :)

Martin

[Mike Meal]

Martin

Try this (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moersch-photochemie.de%2F&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate).

Also it may be worth bookmarking this little program as it can come in handy.
Babel Fish (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/)

[Martin Aislabie]

Hi Mike - nice one :D

Suddenly my German is much improved :rolleyes:

That is a neat trick you have found

Thanks

Martin

[Bob]

A look in Tim Rudman's toning book index does not throw up anything immediately but I believe from past reading that this is a sulphide & selenium based toner (like the now defunct(?) Agfa Viradon).

Sorry: never used it... Good luck.


P.S. The Google toolbar has a useful Translate facility...

[Martin Aislabie]

My Tim Rudmans Toning Book arrived this morning.

Not a sausage about Carbon Toning but a wealth of information about every other toning method I have heard of.

Its a nice, clear, concise, well laid out book if anyone is interested in Toning Techniques

I will let you all know how I get on

Martin

[Martin Aislabie]

Guys, these are my findings on Wolfgang Moerschs’ Carbon Toners - http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/shop/toner

All the tests were done on FB paper developed in Ilford MG Dev for 2 mins, Kodak Max-Stop for 30sec, Ilford Hypam 1+4 for 60sec and then washed.

I exposed a series of 10x8 sheets, to make my own step wedges, starting with an exposure which did not cause any tone change, progressively increasing exposure (using an RH StopClock in test strip mode) to finally producing full black.
I then cut the sheet into eight, one inch strips, keeping one strip as an untoned reference and the other 7 were toned for 15s, 30s, 60s, 2m, 4m, 8m & 16m
I then compared the toned strips to both each other and the untoned reference sample for both density change and colour.

Moersch Rapid Carbon Toner (MT30) @ 1+10 at 20C

MGFB
Not as fast acting as I was expecting
Tone progressively builds up with time
At 16mins full black slightly deeper, no density change to high tones, mid & high tones colour shift to neutral grey

MGWT FB
At 8 mins full black a little deeper, similar at 16 mins
By 8 mins mid tones have turned a reddish brown and by 16 mins brownish grey
No density changes to high tones only colour changes as mid-tones

Galerie
At 16 mins full black a little deeper & mid tones had turned a very slight red/brown grey
No density changes to high tones only colour changes as mid-tones

Kentmere Fineprint
As MGFB

General Notes
From Wolfgangs’ description I had expected a faster acting toner; otherwise I would have started with a stronger toning solution.

It would be advisable to use RO or Distilled Water to mix up the toning solution. I used regular tap water and could see sludgy deposits building up as the toning proceeded.

No post toning steps are required except normal print washing.

Wolfgang did caution about the smell, so I took the opportunity of a fine day to conduct the tests in the garden.
However, the smell was that pungent that I could smell it throughout the house by the end of the afternoon despite having all the windows and doors closed.
My wife noticed the smell immediately she opened the front door when she returned from work despite my best efforts to “air” the house.

Overall, IMO, the toning effects were not sufficiently different or unique to overcome the dreadful smell – which was enough to put me off ever trying this toner again

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moersch Carbon Toner (MT2) @ 1+4 at 20C

Chastened by the experience of the slow responding Rapid Toner, I tried the regular Caron Toner at 1+4 and was much more impressed by the results



MGFB
Tone progressively builds up with time
At 16mins; full black slightly deeper, very slight darkening of mid tones, no density change to high tones.
Subtle colour shift to neutral grey

MGWT FB
Within 15 seconds, colour had changed to reddish brown with no discernable change to density anywhere.
By 8 mins, the full black was slightly less dense and slightly brown in colour.
Mid & high tones had no noticeable change in density but a colour shift from reddish brown to a more chocolate brown.
At 16 mins, the full black was less intense still and the colour had changed to chocolate brown to greyish brown.
No change to mid and high tone density.

General Notes
Again it would be advisable to use RO or Distilled Water to mix up the toning solution. I used regular tap water and could see sludgy deposits building up as the toning proceeded.

Also again no post toning steps are required except normal print washing.

Thankfully, there was no discernable odour with this toner – or at least none that I could detect after the Rapid Toner

There are no claims made that this toner increases archival permanence of prints,

I would consider using this Toner again but would want to run a “blind” jury event to see if the colour changes to MGFB were truly discernable in side by side prints to make the effort worth while.

As an aside, I was very impressed with the speed and efficiency of the Moersch Web Site ordering system.
I ordered the Toners on a Thursday afternoon and first thing the following Monday they were delivered.
If anyone wants to experiment with Moersch Toners, the quickest and easiest way of getting them in the UK seems to be to order directly from Wolfgangs Web Site

Martin

[Mike Meal]

I'm not sure that I'II try Carbon toning but I wouldnt mind trying some of Wolfgangs other products at some point, was postage to UK pricey?
I'm sure I read in another thread that Moersch products may soon be available at Silverprint, has anyone got any more info on this?

[Mike O'Pray]

Martin, based on your experience with Rapid Toner, Wolfgang either does it on a barge in the middle of the Rhine or Mrs Moersch is the most tolerant wife any photog could possibly hope for.

He might of course be divorced or unmarried. I would be both in an instant based on this kind of toning - or dead and not from the smell either :D:.

Mike

[Martin Aislabie]

I'm not sure that I'II try Carbon toning but I wouldnt mind trying some of Wolfgangs other products at some point, was postage to UK pricey?


Mike, I bought a few toners plus stuff from him and paid 12 Euro - which I didn't think was too bad

I knew there was a good reason why I keep all the receipts for the stuff I get :rolleyes:

Martin