A View From The Street.

[Trevor Crone]

While photographing for the Mirage group commission from Team London Bridge this morning I was approached by security personnel from More London and told I could not photograph within this area. Even with a letter of commission from the marketing manager of Team London Bridge made no difference. Security personnel of More London had not been informed and that I would need permission from their management.

The security guard I was talking with was very courteous and could clearly see from the letter that I was there legitimately. It was his line manager who would not waver despite this letter.

I had my 4x5 camera set up on the tripod ready to take the shot so I asked the guard if I could just take this shot. This he allowed me to do but he had to look as if he was preventing me from doing so. As I was leaving he apologised, saying the senior official on duty was a bit of an a**e!

This seems to be a case of "jobs worth" compounded by poor communication between various departments that operate in the London Bridge area.

This commission is to culminate in an exhibition at the Cottons Centre, London Bridge latter this year to help promote the area. How can you promote an area if you can’t photograph it?

In those famous words – ‘I’ll be back’! Next time with a 10x8 or should I use a Canon?:)

[Richard Gould]

Last year I was taking some photos for a client and had my tripod set up King Street, part of our local pedistrian precint when I was approached by an Honary police officer,(a jersey type of alternitive police force, a bit like your special constables) and was told that under health and safety rules if I wanted to use a tripod in that location then I would have to cover the legs with high visibility tape,and that I must take my tripod away and return with the legs taped, this in spite of the fact I was using a manfroto with silver legs and had no intention of leaving the tripod and camerra unattented. I did not use the tape and returned later,set up the tripod and took the photos and wasw talking to a states police officer who did'nt seem at all bothered about the ''low vis''tripod.Richard

[Dave miller]

And you were no doubt surrounded by camera toting tourists. Unfortunately, whilst it is a public thoroughfare, it is private property, a stupid state of affairs, but one we have to live with.
I experienced a similar situation a few years ago whilst photographing at Canary Wharf; however on that occasion, once we had explained who we were and what we were doing the security personnel went out of their way to help.

[Sandeha Lynch]

While that must have been awkward, Trevor, it is also very funny ... left hand, right hand, sort of thing.

Perhaps a letter to The Times is in order. :)

[Rob Archer]

I had a similar experience a few years ago ago. I was photographing the (then new) London Eye from Westminster Bridge with my Graflex Century Graphic (on a tripod) when I was approached by a gent with a security guard's uniform who told me that 'professional photography of the London Eye is forbidden without permission'. I had heard that there were problems using a tripod on the South Bank due to some wierd bylaw, but I was on the Parliament side of the bridge. I politely told the guy this and that I wasn't professional anyway. He told me that 'the image of the London Eye is copyright' and 'why was I using a tripod if I wasn't a professional?'. I attempted to explain the finer points of what I was doing, but his English was a bit shaky and I don't think he got it! He told me to 'delete my pictures to be on the safe side'. and said that I if was still there in 10 minutes he would come back. Suited me fine as I'd already got the shot I wanted!

Rob

[Sandeha Lynch]

'why was I using a tripod if I wasn't a professional?'. I attempted to explain the finer points of what I was doing, but his English was a bit shaky and I don't think he got it! He told me to 'delete my pictures to be on the safe side'.

Pure slapstick, I imagine !! :D

[Trevor Crone]

What I find so very sad, we have all this wonderful architecture but there are so many obstacles put in our way when we wish to photograph it. Many will just give up in frustration.

When I was in Florida 2005 I didn't encounter a single problem using a tripod. And that was in places like the Kennedy Space Centre, Animal Kingdom, MGM etc.

[Tony Marlow]

The Police State is here, the Stasi are everywhere, time for a revolution.

Tony

[Argentum]

Literally a few days after 9/11, I happened to be driving past Hull and decided to drive out to spurn head just to take a look. On the way back through Hull the BP oil refinery was lit up like a christmas tree in the dark so I stopped by the spine road entrance and took out my trusty Technikardan to snap it.
Now as we all know, setting up a 4x5 takes a bit of time and especially so afterdark. I was thinking to myself, someone isn't going to like me photographing an oil refinery. Two or three cars went down the spine road to the main gates and sure enough 5 minutes later, a truck came speeding up from the main gates and a guy jumped out and asked me what I was doing. Having resisted the temptation to state the bleeding obvious, a pleasant discussion took place which culminated in me being asked what I was actually photographing. When I said "Industrial Landscape" the guy seemed quite happy about it and said that I really should have asked first.
Now I was not on their property and they didn't ask me if they could stick that bloody great thing in my view, but again I resisted temptation to explain the facts of life to him and he left me to get on with it having satisfied himself I wasn't a tree hugger out to get the oil industry.

Now if that happened today there would have been police called and an extremely strong probability I would be arrested. It was not 9/11 that caused this situation we have currently, but the UK and American governments reaction to it.

and now this image always reminds me of 9/11
156

[Mike O'Pray]

We can laugh about our experiences and that's important but there's a worrying sea change taking place in the U.K. in terms of authoritarianism. What is chilling is that the change has occurred in such a short period that we, the good citizens of the U.K. would not have believed possible, even 10 yrs ago.

It's difficult to go on without appearing to be "politically motivated" so I won't but history shows that fear plus uncertainty = control of the wrong, non critical things which are irrelevant to our safety such as photography or other freedoms.

We are poor learners under fear and pressure. The drowning man clutching at straws springs to mind

Mike

[PaulG]

In those famous words – ‘I’ll be back’! Next time with a 10x8 or should I use a Canon?:)

I'd steer clear of using this kind of terminology - in the current security climate "Canon" could well be misinterpreted! :D

[Dave miller]

I'd steer clear of using this kind of terminology - in the current security climate "Canon" could well be misinterpreted! :D

Are you insinuating that they can't spell?

[Peter Hogan]

And it's not just architecture and 'places of interest'. A few years ago I was on Weymouth seafront with an SLR - no tripod, taking photos. I was 'approched' by two plain-clothed people who demanded to know what I was photographing and why. They couldn't or wouldn't produce any ID, but muttered somethng about being from the council.
Now we didn't have a polite conversation. In fact I got extremely angry and told them in no uncertain terms that what I was doing was none of their business and they should Eff Off. They did, but weren't very happy that I hadn't cowed to them.
Very sad when ANY photographer, ANYWHERE is seen as a public threat!

[PaulG]

Are you insinuating that they can't spell?

I'm shocked that you could think such a thing! :shock:

I was thinking more along the lines of (in response to the request/instruction to leave)

"Okay, but I'll be back with my authorisation and my Cannon/10x8" (select weapon of choice). Someone not paid to think creatively and not au fait with things photographic might regard that more like a line from a Clint Eastwood movie and a promise of interesting times than comliance with a request.

Or maybe not...:)

[Trevor Crone]

I'm shocked that you could think such a thing! :shock:

I was thinking more along the lines of (in response to the request/instruction to leave)

"Okay, but I'll be back with my authorisation and my Cannon/10x8" (select weapon of choice). Someone not paid to think creatively and not au fait with things photographic might regard that more like a line from a Clint Eastwood movie and a promise of interesting times than comliance with a request.

Or maybe not...:)

I could always say, 'ask yourself, has he taken 6 shots or just 5.....now do you feel lucky punk?':D

[PaulG]

I could always say, 'ask yourself, has he taken 6 shots or just 5.....now do you feel lucky punk?':D


Quickload or Grafmatic? :)

[Trevor Crone]

Quickload or Grafmatic? :)

It would have to be Quickload.:) Perhaps the most powerful film loading system in the world.:)

[PaulG]

It would have to be Quickload.:) Perhaps the most powerful film loading system in the world.:)


<Chortle>

[Richard Gould]

The way things seem to be going in the U.K. I think I will leave my camera at home when Ivisit, and concetrate on taking photos in the channel islands, and on my frequant visits to France, never had those sort of problems here or on my many photographic visits to France,Richard

[brianrbird]

You are very lucky Trevor, could have ended up like the guy who was doing a similar assignment round Elephant & Castle, & ended up in handcuffs & arrested, took the intervention of his local MP to get him released. Or the guy photographing Cycle Paths
who was arrested under the anti - terrorism act! both sound like something out of an Ealing comedy! & they tell us we are not living in a police state.

[Trevor Crone]

Brian, what amazed me was I had a letter with me which I showed the security guard that I was on a commission from Team London Bridge to photograph the area. In the letter it states, "photos can be taken around the London Bridge area anytime between 26.01.09 and 13.07.09". As I said previously this is to culminate in an exhibition involving 8 of us from the Mirage group of which I'm a member. So far I'm the only one of the group who's been stooped but I'm also the only one who has used a TRIPOD, those devilish devices hated by officialdom.

I've taken photographs in other areas around London Bridge and so far not had a problem and I've noticed police vehicles passing by.

I've been in touch with Team London Bridge today and they are looking into it to resolve the matter. I hope to have an answer on Wednesday.

[Mike O'Pray]

Trevor Nice theme there in your comments. One request: Play Misty For Me :D

Mike

[Trevor Crone]

Trevor Nice theme there in your comments. One request: Play Misty For Me :D

Mike

Mike, I think you're onto something there. Some of those comments would make damn fine lyrics to a song. I'll have a word with the over 7 in the group and see what we can come up with:D

Now if only I could work out how to play the TRIPOD:p Which reminds me when I had a Bembo some wag thought I had bagpipes tucked under my arm.

[Argentum]

Mike, I think you're onto something there. Some of those comments would make damn fine lyrics to a song. I'll have a word with the over 7 in the group and see what we can come up with:D

Now if only I could work out how to play the TRIPOD:p

You could always dress it up as a 3 legged dog with a cmaera on its head.

[Trevor Crone]

You could always dress it up as a 3 legged dog with a cmaera on its head.

Actually I think I should get myself a monkey, put a handle on the camera and make it look as if I'm playing a barrel organ.:)

A friend who used to come with me to take photographs used to tell people my view camera was a bird box:o

[Victor Krag]

More and more security cameras on city blocks and in buildings.. yet, you cannot take a picture of whatever you want.. The "Lone Cypress" here, near my way is a trademark of Pebble Beach Company. You can take pics of it, but not sell them unless you're licensed through them.. The greed and paranioa these days is remarkable to say the least.

[Peter Hogan]

I witnessed the most shocking of sights yesterday morning. Let me say from the beginning that my village, Chalfont St Giles, is a quintessential English village. No Tesco, Tandooris, Kosher thingys, take-aways or much else for that matter. It makes news here when a dog poops on the pavement. We do boast a Parish Church, a duck pond and a village green, and it was the village green that was the centre of some of the most blatant and malicious display of crime that I think I’ve ever witnessed. I think I’m still shaking.
It was pancake day, you see, and the local Primary School was hosting a sports day for the children. You know the thing; egg-and-spoon race, twenty-five yard dash, that sort of thing. Those poor children were running about on our village green totally unaware of the PERIL that lurked around. Yes, I’m talking about PERVERTS. PERVERTS with CAMERAS. I can hear you gasp. But more; in a chilling and sinister twist these perverts had disguised themselves as parents! They didn’t fool me, though. Their faces were distorted in cruel and torrid masks the lavicious nature of which I can’t even guess, and which they were, not very convincingly, trying to pass off as ‘parental pride.’
These PERVERTS strolled about at will, filming with a soucance and alacrity that was frightening. And where were the Camera Police whilst all this was happening? Nowhere to be seen. As usual.
I fear for our future. Our children are being perverted before our very eyes. If this sort of thing can happen in the very heart of Middle England, why, what must the lurid sin-bins of our major cities be like?
I think every Port of Entry into our once-great nation should have a sign over the door; ‘ABANDON HOPE ALL YE YOU ENTER HERE’
The only solution is a ‘pixel tax’ of say, £10 per pixel. Keep cameras away from the masses.
It just might save us.

[Trevor Crone]

Peter, what I think your village needs is installation of CCTV and a team of security guards, for what you've have just related is a disgrace and would never happen here in good old London town.;)

[brianrbird]

the thing is if you think of all the great shots of kids taken say between the 30's & 50's, I mean the real Ikon shots by Brandt, Hardy, Roger Mayne etc. You could'nt do them now you would probably be arrested, or called a pervert.

[Paul Mitchell]

That's shocking Peter, I thought they'd banned egg & spoon races on the grounds of health & safety!

[Bob]

Oh, I dunno - Health and Safety sometimes take the day off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEsRfcA5dts&feature=related