Harman Tour

[Xpres]

For those that don't frequent apug... anyone?... and haven't seen it, this may be of interest. A tour or the factory for fifty lucky people. First come first served.

Here (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/123090-harman-site-tour-booking-details.html)

[paulc]

A tour or the factory for fifty lucky people. First come first served.


Open question - Who is going ?

[Mike O'Pray]

I have been twice. Well worth going. I may not like Ilford's pricing policy in the U.K. vis a vis in the U.S. but they do pull out all the stops for the tour.

It would be nice if there was a FADU presence there. You never know if a few FADUers can get there, Ilford might realise that in the U.K. and Europe there is an analogue site worth keeping its eye on.

Mike

[Xpres]

Well I sent an email to ask if I could go, but haven't heard back yet. Quite a round trip from here but worth it.

[Terry S]

I'd love to go but have mobility problems and it mentions going up and down stairs.

Just checking my local airport up the road from me to Manchester and got a quote of over £300 for a return flight, going up the night before and then there's a hotel as well. Oh well, it would have been nice... :(

Terry S

[vanannan]

Well I sent an email to ask if I could go, but haven't heard back yet. Quite a round trip from here but worth it.

Quite a round trip from here too:D

[Mike O'Pray]

Quite a round trip from here too:D

Not that far once you're in L'pool and presumably not that expensive as a foot passenger on the ferry. The problem is then getting to Mobberley which is close to Manchester but a bit out of the way via public transport, I would think.

Mike

[vanannan]

Not that far once you're in L'pool and presumably not that expensive as a foot passenger on the ferry. The problem is then getting to Mobberley which is close to Manchester but a bit out of the way via public transport, I would think.

Mike

Probably about £200 including accommodation, I can purchase a fair amount of fp4+ and multigrade paper for that:D

[RicardoM]

Unfortunately, I am unable to go due to ill health. :(

[Mike O'Pray]

Terry there is a bit of stair climbing but not the Empire State Building kind :D. You might manage it with help. They'll be plenty of willing hands.

If not then the vast bulk of the tour is ground floor based. If you are keen then it is worth speaking to Ilford to see if you might manage

Mike

[Terry S]

Thanks for the info Mike. Cost also gets in the way but if I could maybe convince partner or even other Uni students to come for a weekend away it's maybe a possibility. :)

Terry S

[JOReynolds]

When is the visit scheduled? No mention in FADU or on Harmon Website.

[Bob]

When is the visit scheduled? No mention in FADU or on Harmon Website.

Friday 15th of November 2013.

You need to send a request to join to: michelle.parr@harmantechnology.com. 50 places 1st-come, 1st served.

There is a link to the APUG forum thread in the first post.

[vanannan]

Hmm, it's my wifes birthday on the 15th Nov. I wonder if a couple of days in Mobberley would go down well:D

[skellum]

Vanannan, she might just go for it if she thinks YOU are really enthusiastic.
I'm just back from Miniatura- a big Doll's House fair in Birmingham which my other half really wanted to attend. Not exactly my thing, but she was red-hot-keen. Sometimes you have to go with the flow and take you pleasure in knowing you're making someone else happy.
Of course, you're missus might just give you the blank look and say "What? Visit a factory . . ."

[paulc]

it's my wifes birthday on the 15th Nov. I wonder if a couple of days in [...] A romantic weekend away in a secluded part of the mainland, who could resist :p

[Xpres]

I'm going to try and go on the 15th and I'll probably drive up early in the morning... lifts and petrol sharing?
It seems they're also doing another tour on the 18th for their twitter followers.

[paulc]

[..]lifts and petrol sharing?

I'm game for that.. Getting to somewhere like Stansted shouldn't be too hard.

[Xpres]

I'm game for that.. Getting to somewhere like Stansted shouldn't be too hard.

Ok... sort out details near the time.

[Mike O'Pray]

I don't want to be the interfering "Mother Hen" here, Xpres and paulc and you may have stamina that I don't but bear in mind that it will be Nov 15th with early morning darkness nearly all the way up and darkness nearly all of the way back with heavy traffic from Mobberley until at least Stoke on the return with quite an active day in between once you get there.

Not so bad if the driving is shared but if it can't be and you can travel in the evening of the day before then it is worth considering. There is a Travel Lodge at the M6 services just before the exit to Mobberley which Dave Miller, formerly of this parish, used on either the first or second tour .

Travel Lodge tends to be basic but is cheap and it is only a bed you need.

I drove there and back in the day on both tours but my journey was quite a bit shorter and on the first occasion it was June and good daylight there and back and on the second it was early October and virtually daylight there and back.

I have to admit to being very tired before I got home on both occasions

Mike

[Terry S]

Thanks for the info Mike. Cost also gets in the way but if I could maybe convince partner or even other Uni students to come for a weekend away it's maybe a possibility. :)

Terry S


Still thinking about it.

Just checking Thetrainline.com, a return ticket, going up the day before and coming back the same day of the tour, with 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 hour journeys each way, one can get a train for £35 + then a cheap motel as mentioned. Sounds slightly more affordable now...

Terry S

[Martin Aislabie]

I've requested a place.

I went on the 2008 tour - on the Friday before the Anglesey get-together.

It was fascinating.

Worth a go if you are at all interested in how film and paper are made

Martin

[MartyNL]

I've requested a place.

I went on the 2008 tour - on the Friday before the Anglesey get-together.

It was fascinating.

Worth a go if you are at all interested in how film and paper are made

Martin

Would be nice if they had a factory shop...?:)

[JOReynolds]

I'm going on the 15th. I don't fancy getting up just after midnight, then driving around for hours to pick up fellow-travellers before setting off for Cheshire. If anyone would like to join me in the late afternoon of the 14th, staying overnight at the Travel Lodge near Mobberley, we can discuss driving south straight after the tour or staying another night up North. I have a large diesel estate that takes four comfortably. The hotel expense is offset by the economy of the fuel cost split up to four ways.

[Bob]

Would be nice if they had a factory shop...?:)

Previous experience suggests visitors will not depart without a goody-bag...:)

[DaveP]

Looks like I'm going! Seems rude not to, I'm only and hour and a half away.

If anyone want to split petrol from Sheffield give us a shout.

[Mike O'Pray]

Previous experience suggests visitors will not depart without a goody-bag...:)

I'd have been surprised if any of the group on either of the previous tours were into "Hybrid" stuff but maybe Ilford knew differently because whereas on the 2006 tour all the goodies were all analogue, on the 2008 tour there were samples of Inkjet paper amongst its analogue give-aways .

It'll be interesting what it gives away this time.

To all those going, you'll have a great time.

Mike

[Martin Aislabie]

I have had word back to say I am on the list - at least for now :D

I cannot recommend the visit enough - it is absolutely fascinating.

People of all levels of knowledge and ability go - so get your name down and come along.

Its also a great way of putting names to faces of both fellow FADU'ers and APUG'ers

Martin :)

[Mike O'Pray]

It appears from Ilford's latest post on APUG that there are still spaces on the tour. In fact reading between the lines of the Ilford post I think that it was a reminder that anyone applying will get a place on the tour

So if your are thinking about it but assume that the tour is full so haven't applied then do so as there are still places available.

Mike

[JOReynolds]

If any members are visiting Ilford/Harman on the 15th and have not already made travel plans, please get in touch with me via a PM. If anyone responds I shall drive, starting from St Albans, north of London. Otherwise I'll take the train.
Jonathan

[ymgandy]

I have asked for a place but got no feedback, How does that work, confirmed by email or is there a list somewhere?

[Mike O'Pray]

On the two previous tours, 2006 and 2008 I received an e-mail in return from I think the lady that does most of Harman's customer/tour contact with the outside world giving me details of how to get there, time of arrival, to whom to report etc

it is only the 5th so 10 days away but if you haven't heard by say this Friday latest I'd contact Harman. Harman is probably waiting till numbers are finalised so it can send all invites out together

Mike

[Xpres]

I got an email yesterday with all the details. Might be best to phone to be sure.

I'll be driving up on the day, but starting very early. Happy to give lifts if you're on my route or thereabouts... but it will be early.

[DaveP]

I had an email confirming the place and another one the other day containing more details, itinerary etc.

[Mike O'Pray]

Harman is probably waiting till numbers are finalised so it can send all invites out together

Mike

Bang goes my theory. For my next trick I will inflate a two man balloon with my spare hot air :D

Mike

[LithJeff]

I have asked for a place but got no feedback, How does that work, confirmed by email or is there a list somewhere?
ymgandy, Did you send an email to michelle.parr@harmantechnology.com requesting a spot?

I saw that you posted in the APUG thread requesting a place but you need to email Michelle if you want/wanted a spot

[LithJeff]

So I'm coming over from Denmark. I'll be staying a few days in Manchester.

My current plan is to catch the train down from Manchester Piccadilly at 8:17am.

Anybody else coming from central Manchester?

[ymgandy]

ymgandy, Did you send an email to michelle.parr@harmantechnology.com requesting a spot?

I saw that you posted in the APUG thread requesting a place but you need to email Michelle if you want/wanted a spot

Many thanks, I did that & got a reply & program for the day almost instantly. Great stuff. I will be going from Halifax & will have some spare room if there is anybody in the area wants a lift. let me know by PM.

[Mike O'Pray]

This is probably an unnecessary request but I'd be interested in all of your experiences on the tour.

As there hasn't been a tour since Oct 2008( I remember it well because we'd reached crisis point in the banking fiasco that day - their shares were crashing faster than meteors :shock:) it will be interesting to hear about the questions asked, Harman's responses and learn a bit about Harman's outlook on the future etc

Thanks

Mike

[JOReynolds]

...it will be interesting to hear about the questions asked, Harman's responses and learn a bit about Harman's outlook on the future etc

Will you be there? Are we to ask these questions (which affect us all) on your behalf?

[DaveP]

Mike, can you give us an idea what the opportunity for photos on the tour is like from your experience? I know some of it will be in the dark, and some of it might be commercially sensitive, but I'm trying to work out if its worth carrying a camera round all day.

[Mike O'Pray]

I'll take it that the Mike referred to is me although I am not the only Mike here on FADU. I won't be there this time as I have managed 2 tours already and need to give others a chance.

Cameras were permitted I am sure. On the 2006 tour there is amongst others a shot of Dave Miller and several others crossing one of the roads within the factory in lab type coats that was then placed either here on FADU or more likely on APUG since that was the forum on which Harman made the offer of the first tour. The shot reminded me of the spoof scenes often used to imitate "Reservoir Dogs" accompanied by the music :D

There might have been restrictions on photography in certain areas and of course in the paper packing area red lights are needed and flash is strangely frowned upon :D

I'd say carry a 35mm camera for the sake of size and weight and have maybe a holster or bag for it as a camera swinging around your neck all the time would be cumbersome.

As it's November I'd be tempted to use D3200 to cover indoor shots and poor outdoors light . It might be a bright sunny day but on average light conditions can be dismal at this time of year - I had my living room lights on at 3:3Opm today to read!

As far as questions are concerned anyone brave enough to tackle the question of U.S v U.K. prices :D

Seriously if it were me I'd certainly ask about future price plans and why Ilford Postcard paper in particular is so expensive as is DDX developer.However I am sure that if there are 50 participants which seems likely to be the number aimed for by Harman then most questions at either the intro, lunch or wind-up sessions will manifest themselves

Have a great tour.

Mike

[Martin Aislabie]

I will look forward to seeing a few of my fellow FADU'ers at the Ilford tour.

Do we want to go round as a group (assuming they follow the same format as last time) ?

Martin

[wiesmier]

AFAIR there was no photography allowed inside the buildings.

[DaveP]

If anyone want to split petrol from Sheffield give us a shout.

Last call for a lift from Sheffield.


Do we want to go round as a group

I wouldn't say no to that. I'll wear a red carnation or something.

[Xpres]

I will look forward to seeing a few of my fellow FADU'ers at the Ilford tour.

Do we want to go round as a group (assuming they follow the same format as last time) ?

Martin

Could do... I'm sure we'll work out who's who.

[GoodOldNorm]

Could do... I'm sure we'll work out who's who.
Should we all wear sunglasses?:D:cool:

[GoodOldNorm]

Big thank you to all at Harman, I enjoyed the factory tour and I have renewed confidence that film and paper will continue to be produced for many years to come.

[MartyNL]

Big thank you to all at Harman, I enjoyed the factory tour and I have renewed confidence that film and paper will continue to be produced for many years to come.

That's very reassuring for those of us who weren't able to make it.
Thanks Norm!

[Mike O'Pray]

That was quick Norm. You can't have been home very long. I'd have been surprised if you had been less than impressed by the tour. I'd be interested in more info such as what Q's were asked and how Harman responded, its general outlook on the future etc

Thanks in anticipation of your and others' responses

Mike

[DaveP]

A lot of what they said I've already forgot.....They did say the film sales, especially 120 and sheet film, were on the up.

Also said that the ULF run was up about 30% on the previous year, which is good to hear.

The only disappointment was that there were no Ilford t-shirts, bar towels or golf umbrellas available for purchase, I could have gone for some merchandise.

[GoodOldNorm]

That was quick Norm. You can't have been home very long. I'd have been surprised if you had been less than impressed by the tour. I'd be interested in more info such as what Q's were asked and how Harman responded, its general outlook on the future etc

Thanks in anticipation of your and others' responses

Mike
I travelled with Dave from Sheffield, we are only 1 1/2 hrs away from Mobberley. Harman are confident that the analog side of photography is a growing market, film and paper sales are are on the increase. Harman have restricted their products to the ones that are profitable and they are working hard to source their raw materials at a reasonable price. In order to keep analogue products alive and viable they have worked hard to bring a lot of the manufacturing processes in house. Also I got the impression that their quality control is second to none. Harmon also stressed that ultra large format sheet film will continue to be made to order from distributors even though this is not a particularly profitable enterprise for them. They have some interesting ideas with regard to setting up a network of people willing to share their darkroom and they are looking to set up a web site to sell mounted fine art prints. The issue of film prices here and abroad was briefly discussed, film etc is sold to distributors at a nominal price and it is up to the distributor what they charge. I believe that the USA price for film was low in order to try and persuade tri x buyers to convert to Ilford films. If I have got any of this wrong please feel free to correct me or expand on what I have written.

[LithJeff]

Ok so I am really confused here... below is from the email correspondence I have received from Ilford....

Dear All

Thank you for registering to to attend our site tour on Monday 18th November. We're really looking forward to meeting you all

The day will start at 10am and will finish around 4pm

On arrival please sign in with security and they will give you a visitor badge and direct you to our training centre where there will be drinks available.

It would be really helpful if you could let me know your car registration details before the day so I can pass the details to our security team

I have attached a copy of the itinerary below so you know what to expect from the day and this also shows our full address.

Further directions can be found here

If you have any queries or require any further information then please don't hesitate to contact me

Kind regards

Michelle

Michelle Parr
Harman technology Limited

I am expecting the tour to happen on Monday....

[DaveP]

I think they may have had too many people to all go today, so I think they may have laid another day on, on monday.

I also forgot to ask why they sell sheet film in boxes of 25, despite the fact everyone uses double dark slides and thus needs film in even numbers.

[GoodOldNorm]

Ok so I am really confused here... below is from the email correspondence I have received from Ilford....



I am expecting the tour to happen on Monday....
Yes there is also a tour on Monday.

[LithJeff]

Yes there is also a tour on Monday.

Thanks for the good news, very happy to hear that!!!!:D

[Mike O'Pray]

Thanks for the report back info. I'd be surprised if no-one asked whether the downward trend in silver prices will eventually result in any price reductions. Certainly when there were some steep rises in prices of both film and paper after the banking crisis and consequent recession when there was, as there always is, a rush into both gold and silver and prices of the two metals rose steeply, Harman seemed to blame this as the cause of price increases.

Fair enough but since then the silver price has dropped a lot. If it was a major cause of the price rises then logically it should play a major part in a consequent price drop. Certainly labour costs haven't risen much.

Here's hoping for a price drop anyway, however modest it may be but I won't hold my breath :D.

Mike

[DaveP]

I must admit I didn't really know that the price of silver had dropped or I would have asked.

One thing I will say is having seen the whole operation I'd be less keen to moan about prices. When you look at the level of quality control involved and the amount of r&d that goes into simply keeping their products the same and consistent despite constant raw materials changes its amazing they don't cost more.

I also suspect they may have absorbed some off the silver price hikes before putting prices up so are probably due to be paid back a bit now. It'll also depend on how much an order of silver nitrate lasts them and when it actually gets paid for: obviously they're not just popping down the shops every week for a bag of silver.

[ymgandy]

I attended along with a friend from Halifax. It was a very enjoyable day. I will never open a box of paper or load a film without now thinking about all the work, care, the R & D, quality control & the dedication of the staff who all seem to have been there forever. It may not be the cheapest of products but it is made to a constant high standard by people who care, at least thats the impression I came away with.

[Xpres]

....It was a very enjoyable day. I will never open a box of paper or load a film without now thinking about all the work, care, the R & D, quality control & the dedication of the staff who all seem to have been there forever. It may not be the cheapest of products but it is made to a constant high standard by people who care, at least thats the impression I came away with.

I thoroughly enjoyed myself too and came away with the same impression. I wish I'd taken notes though.... :confused:
Silver nitrate was mentioned in our group, but I can't recall what was said except that it's delivered by brinks matt and it's 'instant' transfer on delivery. They obviously don't like to keep more in stock than they're going to use in the immediate future and have tailored their production to suit shorter runs of any product to help with that. Once they have the big rolls they can cut to order in 5 days for non core lines. The emulsion was all kept bagged in refrigerated store and the coffins containing the rolls were stacked high in a sort of 'vault'... quite a sight.
In the final product I don't think the fluctuating part of the silver price allows room for price changes and they hedge their silver buying anyway. So although it's all about silver, I think it's a bit of a sideshow in the big scheme of things, but a lot of money to sit on in stock terms. They seem to be trying to use the silver in a biotech arm of the company as well so I guess if that takes off they'll have stronger buying power which may help.

Yes, there is a tour on Monday. I think they split the tours according to the type of customer, so Friday was apug and FADU types, Monday is social media types, but of course you could chose to go on either.

The thing that stuck in my mind was how the people at Harman were managing to keep an 'industry' going in this country and exporting 90% of their production. An example we could all look to.

[Miha]

Any photos of the manufacturing plant to share?

[Terry S]

Any photos of the manufacturing plant to share?

I too would like to see some pics etc but I think that someone has mentioned previously that filming and picture taking wasn't allowed. :(

Sooooo, unless someone had a spy camera in operation?... :p
Terry S

[Miha]

Taking snaps of the buildings (outside) sure is allowed.

[DaveP]

You can take photos inside if you ask and they say yes, as some of it is "commercially sensitive". Unfortunately I thought it would be a bit antisocial to cart the tripod and 5x4 kit around and make everyone wait 15mins every time I wanted to take a shot so I was just content to look around and listen to what the staff were telling us.

[Miha]

I bring a can of flash powder on such instances :D

[GoodOldNorm]

Would someone who is going on Monday please ask Simon Galley if he would be interested in joining FADU or is he an annonymous member already?

[DaveP]

OK guys and gals I've tried to condense everything I remember from the tour, and a few thoughts, into this blog post. I hope this is interesting to some people:

http://www.daveparryphotography.co.uk/silver-lining-ilford-tour

[Miha]

OK guys and gals I've tried to condense everything I remember from the tour, and a few thoughts, into this blog post. I hope this is interesting to some people:

http://www.daveparryphotography.co.uk/silver-lining-ilford-tour

Most interesting! Thank you Dave.

[Terry S]

OK guys and gals I've tried to condense everything I remember from the tour, and a few thoughts, into this blog post. I hope this is interesting to some people:

http://www.daveparryphotography.co.uk/silver-lining-ilford-tour

Just read your post Dave and it really made me want to go on the next tour, however much hassle it would be for me to get there.

A great in site.

Many thanks for writing it.

Terry S

[Phil]

That's fascinating Dave - thanks!

[big paul]

Dave I can only agree with the others, what a great blog thanks for writing it and I also enjoy looking at your website ....




www.essexcockney.com

[Mike O'Pray]

Well done Paul and in super quick time as well.

OK I can't resist it any longer so will have to ask it. What was in the goody bag at the end of the day,if there was such a thing given out?

I suspect maybe nothing was handed out and given the numbers involved in the two tours either side of the weekend this would be understandable but it will be nice to know. Difficult to know what they have that is a token and yet worth handing out.

Actually more than a token in my opinion is the MG Printing Manual and strangely I have never seen this for sale anywhere but it is a really useful booklet

Thanks

Mike

[DaveP]

There was indeed a goodie bag. Mine included:
- a roll of delta 400 120 (option of 35mm too)
- box of 25 MG warmtone FB paper
- 3 copies of their multigrade printing manual
- some other bits and bobs, poster, badge, etc

[big paul]

what no sherbet dip dabs ???????





www.essexcockney.com

[Mike O'Pray]

There was indeed a goodie bag. Mine included:
- a roll of delta 400 120 (option of 35mm too)
- box of 25 MG warmtone FB paper
- 3 copies of their multigrade printing manual
- some other bits and bobs, poster, badge, etc

Thanks for that DaveP and well done, Harman. You can't ask for more than that

Mike

[Martin Aislabie]

I had a great time but cannot remember more than about 10% of what we were told.

There is just so much to see, we only brush the surface of operation.

I was also amazed to meet people who had come from Norway, Germany and The Netherlands, specifically for the visit.

If the opportunity ever comes up again, I would recommend it to everyone.

Martin

[JOReynolds]

Dave P,
having just read your blog post I decided to bin my effort. You covered every point thoroughly and I was particularly pleased that you stressed the way Harman was managed - carefully and sensitively, balancing market needs against long-term profitability and therefore survival.
Thanks

[andresp]

... I was also amazed to meet people who had come from Norway, Germany and The Netherlands, specifically for the visit. ...

Martin,

Being the guy from Germany you met, I have to admit I would do it again. It was worth it even if it was a three day trip for me.

Besides the tour itself, I really enjoyed The Importance of Not Being Earnest rule at its best. I wish I could see more of that outside the UK.

Andres

[peterlg]

Martin,

Being the guy from Germany you met, I have to admit I would do it again. It was worth it even if it was a three day trip for me.

Besides the tour itself, I really enjoyed The Importance of Not Being Earnest rule at its best. I wish I could see more of that outside the UK.

Andres

hey, here is something I can relate to, Oscar Wilde was obligatory reading long long time ago, and the wisdom of not taking life too serious has followed me ever since.
How good to read also that Ilford/Harman is carrying on well!
Peter

[RichardWarom]

Thanks Dave your blog was very interesting and very well written, it made me feel as if I had been there.
Richard

[LithJeff]

Would someone who is going on Monday please ask Simon Galley if he would be interested in joining FADU or is he an annonymous member already?

I asked Simon this at the end of the day. He does check this forum very regularly but as a company they have decided to have a single presence on one forum/website/etc. Not surprisingly they choose the biggest and most international analog photography forum, APUG.

So, don't worry Ilford are here, just not in any official capacity

[DaveP]

License to lurk eh?

Anyway, thanks for the kind words about the write-up. One guy on twitter said after reading it he was going to try some b&w film as a result of reading it - I can't ask for more than that.

[Martin Aislabie]

Martin,

Being the guy from Germany you met, I have to admit I would do it again. It was worth it even if it was a three day trip for me.

Besides the tour itself, I really enjoyed The Importance of Not Being Earnest rule at its best. I wish I could see more of that outside the UK.

Andres

It was a pleasure to meet you Andres.

I'm glad that you found the whole trip worthwhile, three days is one heck of a commitment :)

Hope the photos come out and give you a lasting record of the day

Martin

[DavidMB]

I do wish we had worn name badges on the day though. After lunch on Friday when we were sitting round somebody asked about EPROM readers and programmers. I've consulted my in-house IT and tech expert (son) and he has some ideas of folks who use these. If the person concerned is a FADU member or knows who it was that was asking could they contact me by PM.

[Mike O'Pray]

EPROM? What does this stand for?

Mike

[DavidMB]

EPROM? What does this stand for?

Mike

Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory, they were used in all sorts of equipment to hold data long term for look-up tables. They have a finite useable life (perhaps 30 years or so) and there is some photographic process kit from the 70s onwards that depend on them. The person was hoping to find someone with an EPROM reader that could backup a working chip so that should it fail a new one could be programmed to extend the working life of the kit.

[Mike O'Pray]

Thanks for that. What is the photographic process kit from the 70s that depend on them? Is this the electronic kit that early mini-labs, if that is the right phrase, used to control analogue film and print processing by early programming means?

Mike

[Bob]

Almost any computerised equipment from those days will have used EPROM to store the firmware for the on-board microcontroller/microprocessor. They were also used in state-machine based controllers to control the steps through the state-machine (these are obsolete now as microcontrollers do far more for under a dollar each).

Microcontrollers these days have sufficient memory built on the chip as transistor density is *vastly* higher now, so a separate chip is not necessary.

Sadly, EPROM programmers are rare these days for that very reason and I have not had access to one for 20 years or more.


Cheers, Bob.

[paulc]

was hoping to find someone with an EPROM reader that could backup a working chip so that should it fail a new one could be programmed to extend the working life of the kit.

Got one of those kicking around. The only real problem that springs to mind is what type of EPROM is it ?

Getting hold of a vintage 2708 (for example) may be difficult, although I might have a few assorted chips in the back of the cupboard.

[JOReynolds]

Getting hold of a vintage 2708 (for example) may be difficult, although I might have a few assorted chips in the back of the cupboard.
I, too have some old EPROMS knocking around. The programmers used to have ZIF sockets for 24/28/32-pin devices and some means of configuring. The pinout of the 27xx series was fairly standardised.

[DavidMB]

To avoid hi-jacking this thread I have started a separate thread about EPROMs in Darkroom area

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=88005&postcount=1