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View Full Version : Final Q - Who would like to sell their prints? Today.


MarcAeonDELETED
14th October 2013, 04:47 PM
I really hope you chaps will be behind me having spent a massive amount of time on this with you chaps in mind as the first port of call.

I have now completed a fully operational on-line sales platform (currently hidden from view) to sell exclusively, darkroom created silver gelatin prints only. No digital whatsoever.

Hand made only to be only printed by the photographer. IE Vintage.

If you would like to be considered to join in, sell your prints in the gallery and learn more about the project please PM me with your personal email address and telephone number.

Best wishes,

Marc

Lostlabours
14th October 2013, 06:55 PM
In some ways I'd be interested but I have reservations. There was quite a successful Contact Printers Guild not so many tears ago but it fell apart because of the poor work from some members.

Ian

MarcAeonDELETED
14th October 2013, 07:05 PM
My thoughts exactly Ian which is why all prints have to be sent to me in the first place. I dont have built in access to "user accounts" I need a scan on CD and the actual signed print for sale. Here is the blub so far ( in edit )

Enjoy the wealth of creative photography offered here at X. Here you can purchase genuine silver gelatin photographic works for installations or investment collections and display. Because our photographic collections are from exclusively traditional film photographers with a proven passion for analogue photography and the very highest standards of reproduction, you can be assured of only exceptional work.
Our online galleries offer prints exclusively hand made using traditional wet darkroom printing techniques. Each print you buy is from a limited edition collection therefore numbered, and signed, by the photographer in person.
We only sell limited edition prints sourced directly from the photographer or photographers estate and only photographs that have been printed by the photographer in person to ensure only genuine vintage works are listed here at X.
Please take a moment to view the images. We hope you will be inspired and impressed.

Paul Glover
14th October 2013, 08:53 PM
I'd be interested at some unspecified future time, but as a complete and utter neophyte in darkroom matters (just made my first print maybe 2-3 months ago) I'm nowhere near ready to contribute alongside people who actually know what they're doing!

Mike O'Pray
14th October 2013, 09:52 PM
I'd be interested at some unspecified future time, but as a complete and utter neophyte in darkroom matters (just made my first print maybe 2-3 months ago) I'm nowhere near ready to contribute alongside people who actually know what they're doing!

You might be under-estimating your ability. If I see a good print then I couldn't care less how experienced the printer is. Some of your negs may make a good print without the need for burning, dodging, pre-flashing etc. You simply get the exposure correct with test strips and grade correct to represent how you envisaged the scene

However I am not sure how much it means to buyers whether they are buying hand produced limited edition silver gelatin prints nor am I sure that what they are willing to pay will represent a reasonable return to the printers but I am a "glass half full person"

Mike

DaveP
14th October 2013, 10:27 PM
Is there much of a market for 5x4" contact prints at the minute?

paulc
14th October 2013, 10:42 PM
Is there much of a market for 5x4" contact prints at the minute?

I've done a couple of 5x4 contact (and carbon) prints that have been well received, so I'd say there is a (small) market for them.

Marc: I'll send you a PM at some point when normal life returns to this part of Norfolk.

MarcAeonDELETED
14th October 2013, 10:42 PM
"nor am I sure that what they are willing to pay will represent a reasonable return to the printers but I am a "glass half full person"

Good. Then lets discuss it. So to keep things very simple lets set the sizes and numbers of prints per edition in stone in this round of talks. Lets not yet talk about paper types. I see we have 66 views in the space of an hour. So it would be nice if others chip in, if no action then I'll have no option but to take it to "the other forum" I am on a mission and it will require support.

10x8 is used a lot, as is 16x12


So, its an open table, what do YOU think is a reasonable price for a hand made item, but please, don't be no good low down yellow bellied sheep and look at the other posts to guess your reply. Be honest and answer the question in the following format please....

10x8 = £
16x12 -£
Max number of prints:

skellum
14th October 2013, 11:01 PM
"The other forum" :eek:
Is there one?? Marc, I've been wondering what you were up to since you had a big gear clear out a while back.
Good Luck. Everyone here shares an interest in film and printing, and we're all busy putting our pictures away in boxes. How refreshingly gutsy to actually have a go at testing the value of silver photography by trying to sell the things.
Just so I understand, are you looking for photographers to supply archivally mounted prints ('cos I can't cut matts to save my life) or just prints??
Are you planning to act as a kind of intermediary, or actually hold the stock of prints and do the distribution?
I suspect many people reading this will be held back by lacking confidence in the desirability of their own images.
However, no Guts No Glory!
I'm game, on the basis that I like printing and the worst that can happen is I make some prints nobody wants. Hell I do that all the time anyway!

MarcAeonDELETED
14th October 2013, 11:16 PM
Exactly! - Prints in boxes is a criminal offence.

The concept is that I will do most of the work.

Each person to send ONE print and a good scan of it for upload to their very own named gallery.

(Hence the request to find out if anyone on here had any weight on-line to help push it or other methods of getting the word around to promote there own work and by virtue, everyone else's)

All prints will be mounted in a standard size. This will ease standardized postage and packing charges to the end user and I ( we ) can buy pre cut mounts including the plastic wraps in bulk when I have a total print count to start off with.

I'll deal with all telephone calls, hassles with returns, refunds, the whole thing.

Regarding people who are afraid of putting work on-line, well. They don't have to use a real name! Only I would know and anyway if the quality is poor it isn't going on-line anyway.

Regarding image theft the way I now see it has changed. People are going to steal my images and everyone else's. For sometime time I have had no work on display at all anywhere because of it so I thought about how to make it our advantage. I'll of course put a logo over the images online and I HOPE PEOPLE DO STEAL THEM. because of course part of the deal is, the images ( real ones ) will only ever exist on paper, as a silver gelatin print. How many online copies of Ansel Adams work can you find online? Pretty much all of it I expect, what great adverts!

There will be more questions and I hope further input.

"The other forum" :eek:
Is there one?? Marc, I've been wondering what you were up to since you had a big gear clear out a while back.
Good Luck. Everyone here shares an interest in film and printing, and we're all busy putting our pictures away in boxes. How refreshingly gutsy to actually have a go at testing the value of silver photography by trying to sell the things.
Just so I understand, are you looking for photographers to supply archivally mounted prints ('cos I can't cut matts to save my life) or just prints??
Are you planning to act as a kind of intermediary, or actually hold the stock of prints and do the distribution?
I suspect many people reading this will be held back by lacking confidence in the desirability of their own images.
However, no Guts No Glory!
I'm game, on the basis that I like printing and the worst that can happen is I make some prints nobody wants. Hell I do that all the time anyway!

Brock
15th October 2013, 12:52 AM
Interesting idea, Marc. I'd be very happy to write about this on my blog (www.theonlinedarkroom.com). It's not huge - around 10-12000 hits per month - but they're nearly all from film photogs. I could possibly put a permanent ad up as well.

As for pricing a print. Being basically skint I'm not the best person to ask right now. However, I'd pay around £50-60 for a fine art 10x8 and maybe £80-100 for the larger size. Personally, I'd never pay the hundreds that some photographers ask but that could change if I get lucky on the lottery this week. :)


www.theonlinedarkroom.com

MikeHeller
15th October 2013, 10:14 AM
To reply to your questions now that I see what it may be about.

1) I have no sales experience - couldn't sell a fridge in a desert or a heater at the poles and wouldn't try.

2) Never used 'social' media of any kind but can see their use if you have family abroad or need to advertise yourself. I cannot envisage ever doing so. Further, I rarely spend time surfing the web or anything approaching this activity.

3) No wish to sell prints although quite happy to do so. My photography is for myself and if anyone else likes my photos, thats a bonus. I get all the 'exposure' I need through this forum, my camera club (all digital except for me), and am happy to bore anyone else interested in seeing them but will not force them on anyone.

I further think that producing 'limited' prints to excuse the higher prices charged is a typical con to maximise the transfer of money between accounts.

On the other hand, I appreciate that people have to earn a crust and if people are happy and prepared to pay for what is being sold at the price being asked, best of luck. However, it is a sad reflection on humanity that greed appears to be the major driving force.
Mike

skellum
15th October 2013, 10:43 AM
Hi Mike.
Editioning of photographs is a fraught concept.
By it's nature, photography lends itself to the creation of multiple (similar) prints of one negative. In the past, pre-digital, how 'identical' the individual prints were came down the difficulty of the neg, and skill of the printer. In some cases (Saint Ansel) photographers changed their interpretation of a negative over the years, so an image evolved.
Editions, I think, are intended to reassure buyers that their new purchase is 'special'. One print of just 20, or whatever. Reassured by this they are supposedly more likely to buy (invest).
Unfortunately, if you have a great image, and chose to edition it (and be strict) you may lock away potentialy a very popular image.
Mike Johnston over on The Online Photgrapher argues quite strongly that Editioning favours Dealers not Photographers (will find the link).
The Great BoB Carlos Clarke went through a spell of destroying his negatives after printing the edition- as far as I understand it he came to regret the process.
Anyhow, gotta go work. Will find that link later . . .

Mike O'Pray
15th October 2013, 10:43 AM
Marc, sorry I got the analogy wrong. I should have said I am a half empty person thus a pessimist.

I may be mean as well. I just can't envisage being prepared to pay £50-60 for a 10x8 print.

That's not to say most people are like me however. I'll watch with interest as to how it develops

Mike

P.S. That's "mean" as in miserly to our U.S. friends not mean as in nasty or bad :D

Richard Gould
15th October 2013, 11:23 AM
Marc, in theory your idea is a good one, but I have very serious reservations about the concept, I started, when I set up my site, to try selling prints in limitied edition numbered sets, at a high price, and the number of enquiries I got could be counted on the fingers of one hand, I changed the offer and now do O.K., not a fortune but I sell enough in a year to make it worth while,It costs more to post mounted prints, and you charge more, I have offered and still do, to supply mounted prints, I have yet to sell any, all that goes are prints unmounted, so I would not produce limited edition prints, also, if I produce a limited edition print and it sells well, I am stuck, so I will sometimes produce editions of prints, but as it is not a limited edition, but a simple edition, then if it is popular I can produce a second edition of the print, I may not make as much money per print but over the course I can make more from the print if it is popular, selling at a lower price, I learnt long ago about limited editions, plus with Traditional prints 10/8 is not popular, the smallest is around 9/12, 10/8 I find doesn't sell well, these days people want a bigger size,
I have found in both direct sales and internet sales that for every 10/8 I sell I sell 10 9x12, and only ever sell mounted prints direct though mainly galleries, I have been selling prints since the year 2K and it works as above for me, but good luck with the idea, it is a lot of work, and if it wasn't for my other half, who handles all the marketing side, I wouldn't be in this business now.
Richard

MarcAeonDELETED
15th October 2013, 12:46 PM
Nothing's set in stone and I can certainly take on the concerns about limitied edition. We can do both or not at all. Its all up for debate.

As for mounting, well. I'm not convinced. Prints mounted ( To me anyway ) kind of make a print come alive as a something. Also, its at the very least a form of protection. I know that this whole thing is hard to guess out but its going to happen either way so lets play with it. Please do, all, chip in more thoughts and raise issues and solutions.

DaveP
15th October 2013, 03:32 PM
I think prints should definitely be sold mounted, otherwise it seems to me like a restaurant selling you some food without a plate.

Also, how a print is mounted plays a big part in its visual impact. Colour of the mount, size, style etc are all part of the visual experience of the print and these aspects should be in the hands of the artist not the consumer.

Richard L
15th October 2013, 04:36 PM
Was it the magazine PhotoArt back in the 90's that sold (or tried to sell) darkroom prints? The magazine gave prices in the image caption.
A problem there I would have thought is that PhotoArt was bought by mainly photo-practitioners and not the types that have cash to collect prints.

Essentially I think Marc must be congratulated for trying another angle in promoting darkroom printing. I hope it works.

Personally I'd be interested in supplying images on disc to go on a 'selling' site, then if anyone wanted to buy they could do the deal through that site, the site could take a percentage, and I would be instructed to supply a print to the buyer in whatever size or mount they want.

I think as a business it could do good things - as long as there are enough people left making darkroom prints that are capable of selling, because it's tough out there, especially as digital stuff had bitten the arse of the low/mid priced print market.

Anyhow I'm watching this post with interest.

Cheers
Richard

Richard Gould
15th October 2013, 04:39 PM
I think prints should definitely be sold mounted, otherwise it seems to me like a restaurant selling you some food without a plate.

Also, how a print is mounted plays a big part in its visual impact. Colour of the mount, size, style etc are all part of the visual experience of the print and these aspects should be in the hands of the artist not the consumer.
I prefer to sell my prints mounted, but the folk who buy my prints over the internet prefer to save both the cost of mounting the print and the extra postage on a mounted print,you have to, in these circumstaces, do what the customer wants, I would rather make a sale of an unmounted print than quibble adout the mount and lose out to some one else, web selling of prints can be difficult, the customer is basing what they want on what they see on line, and they see an unmounted print at, say £20 plus postage, which is extra for a mounted print, or £15 for a print unmounted and posted in a tube, sad, but true they will 99% of the time opt for the cheaper option, All prints I sell directly are mounted, and I would not sell any other way, The prices I give are only examples and not what I would charge, another point I have found is that customers will often order 2 prints unmounted, and much as I love photography, and follow personal projects for the love of the medium, I have to make a living, and in web selling the customer is king, also, I get a lot of repeat orders, and feedback to me shows that pounds saved means more print sales.
Richard

Paul Glover
15th October 2013, 05:43 PM
You might be under-estimating your ability. If I see a good print then I couldn't care less how experienced the printer is. Some of your negs may make a good print without the need for burning, dodging, pre-flashing etc. You simply get the exposure correct with test strips and grade correct to represent how you envisaged the scene

I probably am; I'm notoriously self-deprecating, my own worst critic, that sort of thing. I feel like I do have the basics under control, and just need to practice dodging and burning motions more often.

On mounting vs not mounted: I tend to feel that a mounted print is more of a finished item; the mount and mat are choices which need to fit the image, plus it offers a good deal of protection to the print itself during shipping. It's one thing mailing out an unmounted print for a print exchange, but quite another when it's a customer paying a significant amount for a fine art piece.

MarcAeonDELETED
15th October 2013, 06:39 PM
Lets side step for a moment and look at effective working models and take a moment to bring up successful galleries. What can we learn from the experience of shopping at one, who is buying from them, demographic and profile, what is being purchased, and what price ranges are people purchasing at. How are photographers dealt with. Genuine figures would be nice. ( By PM is you would rather keep it private ) To be clear, we are of course talking about photographic galleries. Can someone kick this off please? We are all stronger as one.

MartyNL
15th October 2013, 08:27 PM
If people are seriously interested in selling their work online they could always use Saatchi online. Apparently, it gets 70million hits a day and listed in the top 300 websites worldwide!

A link if anyone wants to get started...

http://help.saatchionline.com/

Marc, what would be the advantage of the platform you advocate?

MarcAeonDELETED
15th October 2013, 09:07 PM
Saatch sell everything. This is just for, well. I guess you have read the thread to know.


If people are seriously interested in selling their work online they could always use Saatchi online. Apparently, it gets 70million hits a day and listed in the top 300 websites worldwide!

A link if anyone wants to get started...

http://help.saatchionline.com/

Marc, what would be the advantage of the platform you advocate?

skellum
15th October 2013, 09:44 PM
Home at last!
First up, as promised, Mike Johnsons musings on editions-
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2013/04/limited-edition-photographs.html

Interesting in that Photographers may defer to the needs of the Art market at their own expense. As balance, one commentator points out that galleries take their own risks. I used to sell some stuff through our local art centre and never minded the commission- every now and again a check just fell through the door. Great!

Why not Saatchi online? I just spent twenty minutes looking at junk. A site dedicated to a particular kind of work makes it easier for those truly interested in it to find what they want.

Mounted prints are really nice. A weird piece of magic turns a photograph into something special when you mount it. A loose print is very easy to see as being no more than a single sheet of photographic paper. Hard to present that as being worth enough to show a profit for both photographer and gallery (online or physical).

MarcAeonDELETED
15th October 2013, 10:47 PM
Thank you for posting that. A really interesting read. The part that struck me was, to quote:

All works are editioned. The year of the edition and print number are written on the print. "1/15, 2013 edition"
2) You print additional editions (or not, as you wish), up to one edition per year, as you see fit, enlarging or shrinking the number in each edition as you see fit.

In the end, you can print as many prints as you like. The buyer gets assurances that there won't be a zillion prints just like his out there and knows roughly where his print stands in the pecking order.

The link and posts above do labour a lot on the photographer, dealer and gallery but I think it is very important if not the most important thing for the customer to get real joy and satisfaction from the whole process of buying / investing in an image and to enjoy owning it. This will come from good, very good quality product and service. There is always a market for high quality items backed up by good service. What else can we learn and from whom?

Richard L
16th October 2013, 05:34 AM
I've never done editions. I always explain that because I complicate my printing life so much with different sizes of image, complex printing maps and multiple toning, there is no chance that I could make two prints alike, so even a small number edition is out.

The whole edition thing with photography is a throw back to different printing methods like etchings, dry points etc, and in many ways is more of a marketing device with photography.

The angle I use now is that my prints are called darkroom prints, and differ from digital prints in as much as making a darkroom print is a combination of skills, craft and whatever else you want to add to the process that a machine made digital print totally lacks.
It's surprising how many people are now interested in the idea of darkroom printing, and assume that all photography is digital.

Cheers
Richard

DaveP
16th October 2013, 06:02 AM
I think if selling to the general public then as lpng as there's something edition-life scribbled on the mount then that's enough, be it an edition number, series number, or just a number!

Surely if the worry is that you're limiting yourself to only printing X number of a certain potentially very popular shot by being a limited edition, what's to stop you ruinning another edition at a different print size, or a different paper surface? Another thing I've seen done is changing the prices on prints, so lower numbered prints in an edition cost less, and as the numbers creep up so does the price. This encourages peole to buy early, and also ensures that although you might get fewer sales of higher numbered prints at leasta those you do get will be proportionally more cheddar for. It also means that you're unlikely to ever fully sell out an edition, so if you ever needed to make a money-is-no-object sale of a particular print you would be likely to have on available.

I think some kind of signing and numbering protocol is used, its especially important these days, when many photographpers' print ordering system literally just sets in place a string of automated events where eventually a print drops out of a machine into an envelope with the customers address on it with no intervention by human hand. With darkroom prints the punter on the street probably may not be able to detect any difference in the print quality between a wet print and a digital inkjet, so you're got to play up the handmade aspect of it to really get the point across.

Richard L
16th October 2013, 06:18 AM
I do see the problem Marc might have. It's not much use just keeping 1 print to sell unless it is by someone famous. I suppose there has to be a stock, or edition, or run, or whatever, so how many of us would be prepared to print a run say of 20 prints of say 5 images. 100 prints. Nice idea, but unless I start printing small again there is no way I'd do that.

I think the whole edition idea will not attract many darkroom types, especially those making bigger prints.

Richard

Alan Clark
16th October 2013, 11:12 AM
For a three year period beginning in the year 2000 I sold photographic prints at Craft and Art fairs. These were a mixture of inkjet and darkroom prints. Of the hundreds of potential customers I spoke to when they visited my stall I can't recall a single person who made any distinction whatever between inkjet and darkroom prints. And this was over ten years ago when inkjet prints were notrious for being likely to fade very rapidly. Now we have more permanent inkjet prints, and baryta coated papers that allow inkjet prints to be made that are virtually indistinguishable from darkroom prints I wonder if there is any reason why sufficiently large numbers of people would deliberately choose to buy darkroom prints.
As photographers we worry endlessly about D-max, paper surface and print quality. But the people who bought my prints seemed to be primarily concerned with the subject/content and atmosphere of the photograph.

On the subject of limited editions, hundreds of inkjet prints can be made once you have the file. And they will all be the same. But darkroom prints are all individual, all unique. Should we not be emphasising this uniqueness? Talking about an "edition" of darkroom prints rather plays this down, in my opinion.

Alan

Miha
16th October 2013, 11:28 AM
Perhaps because a darkroom print is a photograph and an inkjet print is not?

MarcAeonDELETED
16th October 2013, 11:52 AM
I don't ever expect this project to be huge. My intention is not to build another virgin mega store or Amazon.

Simply to host a place on-line where people can go, and that those people will know that, they are ONLY looking at darkroom prints.

It's a niche market and the internet is great at doing niches. Since an on-line market stall is global, there will be enough people out there who enjoy darkroom prints to hold it up. So I will be making it very easy for those people to find the work they are looking for and by virtue, a place for film photographers to display works for sale.

Richard Gould
16th October 2013, 12:32 PM
Alan, I have been selling prints direct to the public since 2000, and when we set up at craft fairs, making a point that my prints are hand made from film negatives in a darkroom, people come back to us, and do comment how nice it is to be able to buy real photographs, and when in competation with 3 other local photographers, all digital and inkjet prints, and I must say producing some really lovely work, that we outsell them every time, by 4 or 5 to 1, which is pretty good going as my prints sell at a premium price, I think people are more savvy when buying today, plus, from what I hear from them, they see darkroom produced black and white as a real craft today, and something that is being lost, so, at least from my point of view, there is a market for darkroom black and white, I think the lines with colour are much more blurred, and they take the colour on their own cameras as good as they see on the stalls, but a lot of people see ''real'' black and white as something special, something that is expensive but will last forever, maybe even increase in value, this is from what customers say to either my wife or myself, and this comes from both old and young, and from my point of view long may it last and I intend to continue to make it plain that my prints are darkroom produced, I also believe that this applies to direct selling, there is a different ethic for internet buying, people on the internet are looking for bargains and don't care weather it is darkroom or inkjet, also, I find that for every internet print ordered I sell 4 or 5 directly
Richard

Alan Clark
16th October 2013, 01:02 PM
Richard, it is good to hear that you are doing well with darkroom prints and that the buying public seem to be more in-tune with the craft element of the darkroom process. No doubt there are a lot of reasons why people buy, or choose not to buy, photographs. But I still believe that the quality and subject content of the photograph is a predominant reason. I am pleased that you outsell your inkjet competitors. Maybe you would still out-sell them if your own prints were -dare I say it???? - inkjet. Because they really do like your images better. Just a thought.... I will get out from under the table when the coast is clear!

Alan

Brock
16th October 2013, 01:56 PM
What's the target audience, Marc? I thinks it's clear from this thread that people who buy prints at craft fairs have different expectations from fine art buyers.

And prints don't have to be big to sell. One of my favourite photog's is Bill Schwab and all his prints are 8x8 on a 16x20 mat. They go for up to a few thousand dollars apiece.


www.theonlinedarkroom.com

MarcAeonDELETED
16th October 2013, 02:33 PM
Don't worry about the target audience just yet Bruce, they don't yet know that they are the target audience just yet. That's stage two of five. I have a plan.

Others who already buy darkroom prints will be able to find the site with ease and find it they will. With a little help of course. Now as long as the content is good, all should be well.

Thank you all so far for the input, lets keep it rolling.

What else can we learn from others? I'm interested in chronic failures and the lessons learned, to consistent results that some are achieving, online and in the physical world.

Richard Gould
16th October 2013, 03:01 PM
Richard, it is good to hear that you are doing well with darkroom prints and that the buying public seem to be more in-tune with the craft element of the darkroom process. No doubt there are a lot of reasons why people buy, or choose not to buy, photographs. But I still believe that the quality and subject content of the photograph is a predominant reason. I am pleased that you outsell your inkjet competitors. Maybe you would still out-sell them if your own prints were -dare I say it???? - inkjet. Because they really do like your images better. Just a thought.... I will get out from under the table when the coast is clear!

Alan
It could well be that folks like the subjects, but I do aim to produce fine art prints, and I tend to take a lot of coastal studies, I also produce a lot taken at heritage sites and events, I also think that the subject of the photograph is important, I also believe that to succeed in this game you must constantly strive to produce new work, it is no good just churning out the same prints year after year, for every fair we do I have new work to buy, and this keeps my customers coming back, I have regular customers, and I do notice that the digital competion tend to have the same old same old, very rarely do I see something new, they aim for the tourist market, the cheap and cheerful as I call it, and I try and aim for a regular market, but the fairs, fun as they are, are only a small part of it, I have gallery sales, and also I get commisions, people see my work out there and do commision me to produce work for them, for instance I have just finnished the art work for a new restarunt
which came directly from the owner seeing my work at a fair in the Summer, and coming to me because he liked my work and wanted ''old fashioned, real black and white photographs'' for his walls, so there is a market for fine art black and white photography, at least in my neck of the woods,I also get visitors who return to Jersey year after year, from both the U.K. and the continent, who have bought from me, and often contact me while in the Island, to see what I have new, so while I will never be rich I make a living from Fine art work and a bit of commercial work,
Richard

photomi7ch
16th October 2013, 03:24 PM
I have read most of the other posts. I am always willing to try something new.
I think if you are going to Limit an edition it should ether be done like the book industry and or by time which ever comes first.
john Lewis stocks hand made prints. I have checked this out but they have not labeled them properly enough to make them stand out from the ink prints. I am not sure if this is still the case.
The main consideration for me is time.

Alan Clark
16th October 2013, 03:34 PM
Richard, you must have worked ard to achieve your present position. Good luck to you.
Some lovely images on your website!

Alan

Richard Gould
16th October 2013, 04:32 PM
Thanks Alan, it was pretty tough to start, but luck also played a part, and now my Wife and I work together, she handles all the marketing, admin Etc and I handle the photography side,
Richard

Mike O'Pray
16th October 2013, 07:57 PM
I have given this a little more thought after reading the posts and it struck me that the extensive and ever changing APUG gallery is probably a pretty range of pictures and now has a "Is this picture for sale? question added to each one. I imagine that Marc's idea and website will largely be similar to that gallery. So it forms a good acid test for me.

I generally look at each one and must have looked at several hundred over the last few months. While I would be happy to pay a small amount( a few pounds only) for a few it might not be enough to repay the owner's efforts in printing them.

For the sake of this idea succeeding I have to hope that I am very much in the minority.

Mike

skellum
16th October 2013, 09:25 PM
Ouch!!

MarcAeonDELETED
16th October 2013, 09:33 PM
The beauty of this whole thing, and the world is that not one single human is similar when it comes to what is attractive, and thank goodness for that. It's interesting because for example, the highest amount of money paid for a print as I'm sure we all know ( at the time of typing this is ) is Andreas Gursky photograph which sold for $4.3 million dollars. Each member of this forum would give it another value and thus, the same will apply to every image we put to market. I'm told that most of my prints are worth far more than Andreas Gurskys photographs, but then, that's yet again just another opinion lol :shock: Who knows, we wont know, till we do it, and its going to happen.... within days. In the big scheme of things its a bit of fun and I have no pre conceived ideas of success or failure of those that put work up for it. Does it really matter, not really but I expect some people will sell work and what better genuine gratification can there be for your craft.

Leo Stehlik
17th October 2013, 12:57 PM
Have started many online projects in my life, some of them successfull, some of them failures, so I know what it takes.

I wish you good luck with this venture. Happy to give it a go (sell my prints) at some point in time.

Regards
Leo

Lostlabours
23rd October 2013, 05:04 PM
I would really like to see a more detailed break down of how the proposed site would work.

One of my reservations is having valuable prints sat idle in someone else's hands, it's not as if the actual prints are in a Gallery where they could be seen on a wall or in a print box.

I sell prints un-matted, matted and also fully framed and prefer to print to order to keep costs down. I also sell different sized prints and will be selling Platinum (Palladium) prints of some images as well. I also sell the odd Portfolio sets.

I liked the way the Contact Printers Guild used to operate and feel it is worth looking at via the Internet Archive.

Ian

MarcAeonDELETED
23rd October 2013, 05:15 PM
My most recent thoughts are aligned hence the request for 1:1 scans at 10x8" for 10x8 images to start with provided as TIF file. I thought about having the prints here with but the reverse is true at my end. I don't really want to store even more prints than required. My only fear is that should a print sell, then that said person must agree to print and deliver on time and to the promised quality. Could you send me a link please so that I may look at the waybackmachine.

Many thanks,

Marc

Lostlabours
23rd October 2013, 05:36 PM
Here's the old URL http://www.contactprintersguild.com look at early 2008.

I'm not saying the website was perfect but it was one that was working to some extent, they also sold via Ebay.

My old laptop started over heating & crashing, I hope to get some more data transferred from it and send you some images in the next day or so.

Ian

Lostlabours
23rd October 2013, 05:59 PM
I meant to add that if a print has to be made for order then first only a deposit should be made and a clear delivery date given followed by payment in full before final despatch.

Ian

Lostlabours
23rd October 2013, 09:06 PM
Another issue, a Hi res scan of a 10x8 image, or in my case these days a negative scan (matching the darkroom print) resized to approx 10x8 @ 300DPI, is a potential problem.

I've had a problem when dealing with a magazine where the journalist scanned my prints for the magazine but made copies for himself. Releasing high quality scans rather than screen res scans could lead to major problems so some clarity is needed.

Ideally a pixel size, a standard width for landscape format and a standard height for portrait, with perhaps an exception slightly wider for Panoramic images.

Ian

MarcAeonDELETED
23rd October 2013, 10:09 PM
Hi, I need the high res images because the back-end system will automatically create the low res images that go online so you have nothing to fear regarding the high res scans. Also, all the images uploaded will be watermarked so you have little to fear.

HOWEVER....

I will be putting a "Pin it" icon on the images so that they can be shared on Pinrest. This is the way the internet world works now and as per a previous post I made regarding image theft I can see how we need to allow images to be shared because they will be anyway and so it's a case of making it work for us and not against us by hiding the very item that needs to find an audience.

With the watermark in place the only thing that it will do is let people know where to buy your image, and they will in no way be good enough to make a print from.

I know that the file sizes will be large and I wlll help those who have issues on how to do it. It's only something we will all need to do only once.

I hope this clear's up the question and if it raises more please do bring it up.

Cheers,

Marc


Another issue, a Hi res scan of a 10x8 image, or in my case these days a negative scan (matching the darkroom print) resized to approx 10x8 @ 300DPI, is a potential problem.

I've had a problem when dealing with a magazine where the journalist scanned my prints for the magazine but made copies for himself. Releasing high quality scans rather than screen res scans could lead to major problems so some clarity is needed.

Ideally a pixel size, a standard width for landscape format and a standard height for portrait, with perhaps an exception slightly wider for Panoramic images.

Ian

MartyNL
24th October 2013, 05:50 PM
My internet provider doesn't allow mails over 10mb. I don't know how it is with everyone else?

MarcAeonDELETED
24th October 2013, 05:55 PM
You simply need to share a folder with me.

This what my clients use:

https://www.dropbox.com/

And its free and very useful.



My internet provider doesn't allow mails over 10mb. I don't know how it is with everyone else?

Richard L
24th October 2013, 06:27 PM
Honestly you are better off getting jpegs sized and sharpened to an exact size. That's why I asked for a specific size. Bigg tiffs are so unnecessary.
Biggest images for web display round the 1500 Px mark.
Richard

MarcAeonDELETED
24th October 2013, 06:32 PM
Richard. I'm afraid your missing some detail that enables you to reply with any accuracy. Large TIFFs are completely necessary for the application.


QUOTE=Richard L;87136]Honestly you are better off getting jpegs sized and sharpened to an exact size. That's why I asked for a specific size. Bigg tiffs are so unnecessary.
Biggest images for web display round the 1500 Px mark.
Richard[/QUOTE]

Richard L
24th October 2013, 06:42 PM
Marc
Fair do's.
Richard

skellum
26th October 2013, 10:00 PM
Up a little earlier than usual this morning, some prints hanging to dry. A spell in the darkroom did make me think about a couple of things.
I shoot mostly 6x6 MF and 5x4 LF, with a little 35mm for good luck.
Some of my favourite images are 5x4- which of course prints perfectly on 10x8 and 16x20. However, I have a lot of square images and some pano. Which made me think that there must be folks reading this thread who shoot 35mm, 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 plus assorted other flavours.
People selling through their own photographs through their own websites might only face one or two formats.
Mounted prints are certainly nice, but how might participants in Marc's proposed online gallery handle this?
Should all images be of a single aspect ratio?? It would avoid a plethora of custom over-matts.
How many print sizes?? Not more than two, surely?
At one point I did sell a few photographs, all either 7 inches square (on 10x8 paper) or 10 square (12x16 paper) in beech frames.
It gave them a nice 'family look', so that those familiar with my stuff spotted it straight away.
I'm certainly looking to participate, but is there a consensus that a collective like us could work to??

MarcAeonDELETED
26th October 2013, 10:19 PM
Hi. Thank you for the comment. Well we have two issues. On the one hand, I could say. "You have an order, please ship directly too" and then we are all collectively at the mercy of each other to do a qood job and, get it sent out on time and packaged to standard. One wrong move by one wrong person and were all done for. So I can't take that route. The other route is "You have an order. Please ship the print directly to me and I'll send it on" Which add's drag and expense to the whole thing. The 3rd is to keep a pre printed (ready to ship) image that can be sent swiftly which again, leaves us all at the mercy of delivery and thus, reputation. So I think the only way forward is to send a copy of the print over with a good scan and some text to go with it in a word file. I have to, while we bump along a little, set a fix on sizes. 10x8 and 16x12 This might change but for now, lets just see how we get along. I don't want to have to find myself not having the correct sized packaging for strange sized prints. I think we should be fine for anything smaller than 16x12 but not larger if that makes sense. I note that the post office have again changed the rules on postage this weekend which is another matter. I might look to only use UPS because we can then track each package. So, as much as I can standardize the better making it as pain free as possible for all those concerned. Again, do chip in with ideas.


Up a little earlier than usual this morning, some prints hanging to dry. A spell in the darkroom did make me think about a couple of things.
I shoot mostly 6x6 MF and 5x4 LF, with a little 35mm for good luck.
Some of my favourite images are 5x4- which of course prints perfectly on 10x8 and 16x20. However, I have a lot of square images and some pano. Which made me think that there must be folks reading this thread who shoot 35mm, 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 plus assorted other flavours.
People selling through their own photographs through their own websites might only face one or two formats.
Mounted prints are certainly nice, but how might participants in Marc's proposed online gallery handle this?
Should all images be of a single aspect ratio?? It would avoid a plethora of custom over-matts.
How many print sizes?? Not more than two, surely?
At one point I did sell a few photographs, all either 7 inches square (on 10x8 paper) or 10 square (12x16 paper) in beech frames.
It gave them a nice 'family look', so that those familiar with my stuff spotted it straight away.
I'm certainly looking to participate, but is there a consensus that a collective like us could work to??

photomi7ch
27th October 2013, 05:43 PM
I take it that the sizes are paper sizes and not picture sizes.

scanned picture sizes do not need to be more than 1226 pixels on the longest side. sizes over this will make the picture slow to load when clicked on. it will not make any difference to the quality on screen. You are selling prints so there is no point having blotted image files.

Happy to promote webs site on blog.

MarcAeonDELETED
27th October 2013, 08:39 PM
I will be re-compressing the files, so I have to have good tifs to start with. Anyone sending me a small JPG will be wasting there time and I'd have to reject it. I thought we had covered this.


I take it that the sizes are paper sizes and not picture sizes.

scanned picture sizes do not need to be more than 1226 pixels on the longest side. sizes over this will make the picture slow to load when clicked on. it will not make any difference to the quality on screen. You are selling prints so there is no point having blotted image files.

Happy to promote webs site on blog.

Mike O'Pray
27th October 2013, 10:24 PM
Marc, I am a complete scanning ignoramus but curious and want to be educated so be patient here but why do good TIFFs that are re-compressed look better than simple JPEG's.

Presumably the scans that potential customers see on your website via this process will be looking at will be much better scans than we look at on our FADU gallery? In fact they will be scans that replicate the print from which they are produced?

Otherwise there wouldn't seem to be much point. Have I got this right?

Mike

MarcAeonDELETED
27th October 2013, 11:12 PM
The back end software of the website compresses the images. If I put a JPEG into the system, it will be compressed, again, and you guessed it, the picture will look ***t.

Hence. A nice big lossless TIF in, a nice good quality jpeg out.



Marc, I am a complete scanning ignoramus but curious and want to be educated so be patient here but why do good TIFFs that are re-compressed look better than simple JPEG's.

Presumably the scans that potential customers see on your website via this process will be looking at will be much better scans than we look at on our FADU gallery? In fact they will be scans that replicate the print from which they are produced?

Otherwise there wouldn't seem to be much point. Have I got this right?

Mike

Adrian
28th October 2013, 10:02 PM
Hi Marc, what about we send you a print and you scan it? I'm assuming here you have a good scanner unlike me. I have a rubbish old scanner/printer which I hardly ever use. I'd rather spend my money on printing materials than a new scanner.

I have read all the posts and I am intrested in your idea. I know you didn't want to talk about paper, but I'm not set up for fibre based - not enough money, time and room at the moment to do FB. It would have to be RC from me at present, sorry!

skellum
10th November 2013, 02:59 PM
I've just fired some scans to Marc. They're images I feel happy to show. I have found it very interesting going through my images- seems like I've shot a lot of stuff, and picking things that other people might like is surprisingly hard.
Anyway, should this gallery progress I'd be planning to print on fibre papers, using the Ilford archival sequence. I don't (myself) much go for 'editioning' photographs. Rather, I would like to number prints as I make them. After all, I suspect I'm not so famous I'm ever going to sell hundreds of any particular print. Hey, 1 or 2 would be a nice start!
Cheers!

MarcAeonDELETED
24th November 2013, 05:13 AM
Limited places left. Never more than 49 members. I've change the criteria. The content has be red hot fantastic. And its working.