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View Full Version : Printing a B&W Negative on RA4 [paper


John King
17th January 2014, 05:28 PM
Has anyone ever tried printing a normal B&W negative on RA4 paper by using a clear piece of C41 negative between the light source and the B&W negative as the base filtration then add in the required filtration to make the print?

If so what were the resulting print like? I can visualise some cracking grain if Using TriX developed in Rodinal!!!

Lostlabours
17th January 2014, 08:11 PM
It was once a common technique, look in John Hedgecoe's books. Usually it was to get a particular colour monochrome image.

Ian

John King
17th January 2014, 09:30 PM
Thanks for that I must try it.

I cannot find a clear bit of C41 rebate at the moment to try. I have just finished a 2 hour session in the darkroom so I would have tried, if I could find a bit.

Mike O'Pray
17th January 2014, 09:36 PM
If so what were the resulting print like? I can visualise some cracking grain if Using TriX developed in Rodinal!!!

John, I have only ever used RA4 paper for colour negs so haven't given the result of the above any thought before this seeing this thread but why would Tri-X in Rodinal give what I think you mean to be bigger grain on RA4 than on trad B&W paper?

I am looking to be educated here so anyone can join in for this purpose

Thanks

Mike

John King
17th January 2014, 11:15 PM
It will give bigger grain than C41 film and the effect will be errrr, different. I may be wrong but it is worth a try. Just leave me to dwell in my own world.

big paul
17th January 2014, 11:56 PM
John ,if its a itch that has got to be scratched then you will have to scratch it ,,,,oh and let us know the results ...good night all .....




www.essexcockney.com

RonanP
26th January 2014, 09:06 PM
If you happen to have one you can use a Wratten 85, it gives the same sort of result as using a bit of masked film base and probably better optical quality.
Brian

alexfoto
28th February 2014, 07:41 PM
-Yes i have print in the past with very good tonality, once you find the filtration. First you have to try with +40, +40 filtration than usual as the b&w no have those red base. Once you find then is easy as you have to change only the time, the filtration stay the same and change if you change the paper bunch.
-One easy trick is to put a clean base of color film that you now the filtration above the negative.

John King
11th January 2015, 07:57 PM
At long last I have got around to printing a B&W negative on Colour paper. It was actually quite easy to get a pure neutral B&W print. To counter the C41 film colour mask I taped a clear strip of film to the negative carrier above the top plate.

After a few test strips with varying results I found that a negative has to have a reasonable 'punch' to be printable, more than I would like to print onto say Kentmere paper. Flat correctly exposed/developed negatives are not very good. What I did notice though was the grain seemed to be reduced compared to printing on B&W paper.

The film I used with the image was on Kentmere 400ISO film with a very faint greyish tint and the resulting prints had a cyan cast. I cleared that and the test print was quite presentable for a 1st reasonably successful effort.

I will start to upload examples of the results. what are the recommended max file sizes in Jpg.

B&W Neil
11th January 2015, 08:19 PM
At long last I have got around to printing a B&W negative on Colour paper. It was actually quite easy to get a pure neutral B&W print. To counter the C41 film colour mask I taped a clear strip of film to the negative carrier above the top plate.

After a few test strips with varying results I found that a negative has to have a reasonable 'punch' to be printable, more than I would like to print onto say Kentmere paper. Flat correctly exposed/developed negatives are not very good. What I did notice though was the grain seemed to be reduced compared to printing on B&W paper.

The film I used with the image was on Kentmere 400ISO film with a very faint greyish tint and the resulting prints had a cyan cast. I cleared that and the test print was quite presentable for a 1st reasonably successful effort.

I will start to upload examples of the results. what are the recommended max file sizes in Jpg.



This is what the appropriate section says about file upload details:

file types: jpg,jpeg,png,gif

Maximum File Size: 200kb file size limit.

Upload Limit: 5 images per day.


Neil.

Mike O'Pray
11th January 2015, 09:12 PM
John, well done. What was your RA4 paper and what filtration did you use for neutral grey? Thanks

As Lostlabours says, it might be worthwhile trying for sepia as well. That gives the best of both worlds in the form of straight prints and "toned" prints without toning

I have seen prints from B&W negs on RA4 produced by my local mini-lab and to most eyes I'd say that its prints would pass for trad B&W paper.

Of course the lab does it by pushing a few buttons instead of the much more laborious "cut and try" methods we have to use in a darkroom but it does demonstrate that it can work

Mike

John King
11th January 2015, 09:40 PM
Thanks for that.

John King
29th January 2015, 08:51 AM
John, well done. What was your RA4 paper and what filtration did you use for neutral grey? Thanks

As Lostlabours says, it might be worthwhile trying for sepia as well. That gives the best of both worlds in the form of straight prints and "toned" prints without toning

I have seen prints from B&W negs on RA4 produced by my local mini-lab and to most eyes I'd say that its prints would pass for trad B&W paper.

Of course the lab does it by pushing a few buttons instead of the much more laborious "cut and try" methods we have to use in a darkroom but it does demonstrate that it can work

Mike

The basic filtration I used was 15M 12Y. The film base used to give the orange mask was from an Agfa C41 rebate. The paper was Fuji Gloss. The enlarger is an LPL6700

I have now almost certainly abandoned Fuji paper, it is sometimes too difficult to get rid of cyan or green casts. I am now using Kodak (Cut from a roll) so the filtration will be different.

John King
1st May 2015, 07:40 AM
A belated comment on the above. I said that I had given up on Fuji paper because of the casts that I could not get rid of. I had quite a large quantity so at the time was loath to throw it out. I started to use it again for enprints but it is absolutely awful.

It isn't all that old - less than 6 months but the cyan cast will not go away, it seems to be getting worse! A comparative 10x12 print on Fuji and one on Kodak shows the Fuji had a marked loss of colour colour saturation with an all over haze. The Kodak one was miles away the better.

No point in keeping the Fuji so into the recycling bin it goes or to my grandchildren to draw on the back.

Mike O'Pray
1st May 2015, 11:56 AM
Commiserations, John. That does seem a very short time and to be fair to Fuji such a short time before it goes bad is not a criticism I had heard much of.

The only problem for most folk with Kodak is that only a site in Germany provide cut sheets

Yes it can be cut at home with a bit of a "faff" but I have yet to have the courage to try and whereas a 100 sheet box for intermittent colour sessions is OK I wonder whether I'd have problems with the time I'd take to get through a whole roll

Mike

John King
1st May 2015, 12:53 PM
After the final decision to ditch the Fuji I set about cutting a quantity of the Kodak paper roll.

I think I posted a description of my roll holder a while back and using this I was able to cut 25 sheets of 12x16 in about 10 mins using a guilotine and a piece of 20x16 card marked out in various paper sizes. I chose to cut 12x16 only because it is simpler to do and the sheets can then be cut down to smaller sizes with little waste.

I had my DUKA safelight on turned down to 10% but as the paper comes out of the holder face down it can be handled with relative ease.

My main worry when making the paper holder was that the plywood may contain chemicals that could fog the paper, so far there has been no reaction.

The 12" roll of glossy is 88M long and cost £84, however out of 88M I can cut approx 220 sheets (not allowing for waste, so it is a good deal cheaper than Fuji as well.