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John King
2nd February 2014, 08:31 AM
Quite a long time ago, Ilford sold a powder developer called Hyfin. It came in 2 small packets each making up 500cc of working solution. It was a high definition developer designed for the then Fan F and what was the forerunner of FP4 - FP3. It gave me the most superb negatives I think I have ever produced. The developing time at 20c was 18 minutes. Better than Rodinal and that's saying something.

As they no longer sell it, I approached Ilford to ask if they can release the chemical formula but they have declined to do so. I was wondering if anyone out there has the formula they could pass on.

Lostlabours
2nd February 2014, 10:25 AM
I have 3 or 4 packs of Hyfin, each contains 5 individual sachets of developer, all totally useless now due to oxidation.

While Ilford never published the formula. Mason suggests a formula that might be Hyfin in his book Photographic Processing C\hemistry.

He gives a typical high acutance formula as:

Metol 0.5g
Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 5g
Sodium CArbonate (anhyd) 5g
Water to 1 litre

Dev times between 12 & 25 minutes.


This isn't Hyfin though which contained Glycin. He goes on to say other formulae contain Glycin alongside the Metol in about the same proportion with a few ml of 1:2000 Pinacryptol yellow solution being added with the Glycin.

LFA Mason was a senior research chemist at Ilford and his editor was Dr GIP Levenson of Kodak

Ian

John King
2nd February 2014, 04:30 PM
That formula is very similar to Beutler's developer which I also used before discovering Hyfin.

I am going to have another go at Ilford and speak direct to their technical department. It is hardly going to make the company bankrupt by releasing the formula so I don't see what their problem may be..

Brock
2nd February 2014, 06:00 PM
Ian,

I've got some Hyfin as well. Have you tried yours to see if it has oxidised or are you thinking that because it's so old? I fancied giving it a go but if yours is toast mine will probably be the same.

Bruce

Lostlabours
2nd February 2014, 06:52 PM
Ian,

I've got some Hyfin as well. Have you tried yours to see if it has oxidised or are you thinking that because it's so old? I fancied giving it a go but if yours is toast mine will probably be the same.

Bruce

I mixed some up a few years ago and it went black, definitely oxidised. The packing was low grade polythene which allows oxygen to permeate a sealed bag over time.

Ian

Argentum
2nd February 2014, 06:56 PM
If it contains Glycin then you'll need good luck with obtaining Glycin.
Seems very very very hard to get hold of in the UK.

You can get it from US but its very expensive.

And the big question is, do these old devlopers work so well with modern films. You can but try.

Brock
2nd February 2014, 09:06 PM
I've actually got some glycin and pinacryptol yellow. Not sure if I'd want to use it mixing up Hyfin, though, assuming I could get the real formula. Not sure what else it could be used for - I'll need to start looking up some formulae. :)

Mike O'Pray
2nd February 2014, 09:12 PM
I wish you luck with Ilford but when it ceased to make its own Cooltone developer which was lamented by many a few members on another site asked a similar question and met with a NO

As I understand it a number of Ilford developers are in the public domain so I can only assume that there is a good reason why Ilford takes this line with some of its defunct products.

Mike

Argentum
2nd February 2014, 09:21 PM
I've actually got some glycin and pinacryptol yellow. Not sure if I'd want to use it mixing up Hyfin, though, assuming I could get the real formula. Not sure what else it could be used for - I'll need to start looking up some formulae. :)
ansco 130 print developer I think

John King
3rd February 2014, 07:19 PM
Just to let you know that I actually spoke to a very nice lady in Ilford's technical Department and they were quite helpful, however they no longer have the formula for Hyfin so the trail ends there.


The only trace they could find of it in their records is a mention in a website which you can access by typing in Ilfordchronological
This take you to a site which lists the history of Ilford from the very early days and Hyfin is mentioned under the date of 1961 (Scroll down from the top.) One little snippet I picked up was the original Ilford Multigrade, the grades were changed in the opposite direction to the current papers. I.E. The harder grades were with yellow and the softer were magenta, now that's odd!

It is an interesting site and well worth a visit.

Mike O'Pray
3rd February 2014, 10:17 PM
Seems strange that under any form of records retention worth its salt that there is no record of this product's ingredients but there we are.

Mike

Argentum
3rd February 2014, 10:27 PM
ilford use outside companies to make up a lot of their chemistry so is it really a surprise that they won't give out formulas? They may never have had the exact formula to start with.

How many compnaies use rebranded ilford papers? Ask those companies what the mix of chloro bromo emulsions are and they probably wouldn't know.

Kodak sell liquid Dektol. It's actually polycontrast developer rebranded with the Dektol name. Ask them what the formula is for Dektol and if you're lucky you'll get the powder formulation which isn't what's in the bottles.

Chemistry uses branded names and not formulas. The formulas and constituents have always changed over time. You are buying a brand name not a formula.

So at what point in time do you want the formula for and who was actually making it at that time with what constituents? The answer isn't so easy to come by as you might at first think.

I'm not surprised they won't give them out.

John King
4th February 2014, 11:38 AM
The Ilford Hyfin was first sold 53 years ago when I feel that the style of marketing was not the same as it is today. Far less pushy and a lot more genuine. That particular product was only sold for 18 perhaps 19 years so there must not have been the volume sales as there are even today. With Ilford moving perhaps several times, splitting up and then finally finishing up in Mobberley, it is understandable that some defunct matters may well have been lost or discarded.

In those days Ilford WAS Ilford and based in the town of the same name where they made everything, chemicals, paper and film. Not the multi national company it is today, split up all over the place. The girl from the tech department I spoke to, had not even heard of it until I asked her. She finished the call with the promise she would ring back if she found anything. When she did call back all she was able to say was that she had been unable to trace anything except the web address I gave before.

Rob Hale
5th February 2014, 03:18 AM
Hi

RE Ilfords reluctance to release the Cool tone formula. I have read “some where” probably Sean’s place that it’s the not formula that is the problem its one of the ingredients. Apparently one is / was made by Ilford for Ilford which is not available else where and the cost of manufacturing it was getting out of hand. So if the key ingredient is not available there not a lot of point in releasing the formula and taughting us “Cool toners”.

Regards,

Rob

Bob
5th February 2014, 11:35 PM
Hi

RE Ilfords reluctance to release the Cool tone formula. I have read “some where” probably Sean’s place that it’s the not formula that is the problem its one of the ingredients. Apparently one is / was made by Ilford for Ilford which is not available else where and the cost of manufacturing it was getting out of hand. So if the key ingredient is not available there not a lot of point in releasing the formula and taughting us “Cool toners”.

Regards,

Rob

Yes, that is what I semi-recall too - one of the components was proprietary so they could not release the formulae.