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-   -   Microphen v Xtol (http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13558)

Lostlabours 28th December 2020 06:34 PM

I used Ilford's re-use with increased times successfully back around 1969/70 with HP3 & HP4.

Ian

Mike O'Pray 28th December 2020 08:10 PM

I have since looked at Svend's link and hadn't realised there was a whole 5 pages. So thanks Svend I had completely forgotten about that thread

AlexMuir seems to have been the only one to have tried it in the Ilford replenishment way of pouring all the used developer back into the 1L bottle and he appeared to have success with HP5+ pushed all the way to 3200 and D3200 pushed to 6400 but it wasn't clear if he had used the llford replenishment system for all 10 films without mishap towards the end i.e at say 8+ films and unfortunately for me he confined himself to one post.

The other replenishment system was also mentioned by Svend whereby you have the 1L stock bottle and I presume a separate stock bottle from which you pour 9ml per roll into the stock that lies partly empty while the film is developing. You then add the used developer from the tank back into the 1L bottle discarding what remains ( about 9ml ) in the tank

This is an economical way par excellence. From 2x1L packs you get 110 films developed in what is a consistent way but for me I doubt I would ever get through a 110 films in the time that I could expect Microphen to stay usable.

What are the difficulties of making up 1L and retaining, say, 200ml as replenisher and 800ml as main stock? Would this work?

If it could then this still leaves the problem of air filling the 200ml replenisher bottle, doesn't it? Can this problem of more and more air in the replenisher bottle be covered( literally:D) by the likes of Protectan? I can't think of another way

Thanks

Mike

Uwe Pilz 29th December 2020 04:39 AM

> The tank I prefer for 120 is the Durst tank which unfortunately only holds 1 x 120.

It should alway be possible to get two 120 mm film at one spool. A 120 mm is 85 cm long, and there is room for a 35 mm file, which is 170 cm.
From the last film, bend one corner to prevent that i slips over the first film. I always work this way.

Mike O'Pray 29th December 2020 11:55 AM

Thanks Ian and Uwe.

Ian, good to hear that you were able to use the Ilford method without problems. I did a lot of research on this and it is hardly mentioned at all anywhere and of those who do mention it there is a suspicion by me that many are not saying what their experience was as they have none but are simply saying what they have read and in some cases have probably embellished on in terms of the likelihood of the adverse consequences.

Interestingly enough there was a second post on Microphen here which I had also forgotten about where Big Paul had problems and in his case it seemed to revolve around the adding 10% time to each extra film. Based on what he was told by others including Rob Archer it looks as if there is no need to change times for the second film at all. This would make sense in that as Uwe has pointed out you can develop 2 x120 in one tank with 450ml presumably because 450ml of stock has twice the minimum quantity of chemicals required for 1 x120

So on that basis I presumably could consider a 1L of stock to be enough for 10 occasions of 2 x120 so a total of 20 x 120 films from 1L with the Ilford method This leaves the question of the increase in development time after each occasion. It may be that 5% increase is enough but I don't know?

Ian can you recall whether 10% increase was about right for film consistency or was this too big an increase?

So in summary I think I'll be conservative and stick to Ilford's 10 developments be that 120 or 35mm films and the question that leaves is whether Ilford's 10% increase in time is more than is required?

Thanks

Mike

Mike O'Pray 29th December 2020 06:05 PM

what I am going to do is mix up my other packet and use it five times only without increasing the development time as stated in the instructions and then throw it away

Paul this is a quote from your thread in 2016 of your problem with Microphen using the Ilford replenishment system over a max of 10 films

What did you do as stated above and if you did how did all 5 turn out developed at the same time as the first?

Also did you stick to the Ilford times for the first film or use more or less time than that of Ilford's?

I am trying to gather as much info as I can before making up 1L and then deciding about the pros and cons of the Ilford replenishment system

Thanks

Mike


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