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-   -   An easy way to develop sheet film (http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1883)

Alan Clark 28th December 2009 02:02 PM

An easy way to develop sheet film
 
1 Attachment(s)
The simplest and cheapest method of developing 5 x 4 sheet film is in an open dish using the "shuffle" method. Its drawback is that it is not easy to load the sheets of film, with wet hands, one at a time, into a pre-bath of water. It also requires some skill to avoid damaging the film when shuffling the sheets during development.

Fortunately there is a simple way round these problems. Take six 1.5" plastic rawlplugs (used for fixing screws in a brick wall) and araldite them to the bottom of a 10" x 8" developing dish, as shown in the photograph. The dish can now be used to develop four sheets of film, each of which is placed emulsion side up in its own quarter of the dish.

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...1&d=1262012342

During development the dish can be covered by a light-proof lid, also shown in the photograph. this allows you to have the light on during processing. Construction details are given at the end of the article. If you lack woodwork skills or facilities, you can dispense with the wooden lid, and cover the dish with a black towel. I do this when developing twelve sheets of film in three dishes, though I only have the safelight on then.

The divided dish is very simple to use, partly because the film does not fall out when you tip the tray up to pour liquid out. Suction causes the film to temporarily stick to the bottom of the dish. This means that the whole process; development, stop-bath, fixer and washing, can be carried out without removing the film from the dish.

Because chemicals are poured in and out of the dish in the dark, a certain amount of pre-planning is needed. I have wide necked containers for stop-bath and fixer, but they are different sizes and easy to identify in the dark. Developer is mixed in a measuring cylinder of a different shape, and all three containers are placed in order of use, in a line, at the start of a developing session. I check that the dish is dry, and standing on its baseboard with the lightproof lid propped up behind it. Then with the lights off I remove the sheets of film one at a time from their holders and place them in the dish, emulsion side up. Development then proceeds as follows.

1 Pour in the developer, start the timer, place the lid over the dish, check that it is covering the dish properly, then switch on the light.

2 Agitate gently and continuously until end of development.

3 Turn off light, remove cover, pour out the developer. Pour stop-bath into dish. Pour stop-bath back into its wide-necked container (the only slightly tricky part of the entire process).

4 Pour in fixer. Replace light-tight lid. Light on. Remove lid after fixing. Pour out fixer.

5 Wash film using several changes of water. Add wetting agent. Soak. Hang film up to dry.

This method of working has several real advantages.

a. Cheap, and easy to set up.

b. Easy to keep track of individual sheets of film. I always place them in the same order in the dish, starting back-left and moving clockwise to end front-left.

c. Very even development. Developer flow not restricted by rawlplugs.

d. No damage to film emulsion.

I do not claim that the method is foolproof, but I have used it for over 25 years and found it very easy to get good results right from the start.

To make the light-tight box use 3" x 1.5" softwood for the sides. Cut two lengths at 12" and two at 17". Make sure the ends are square or the box will not be light-tight. Join these four lengths together to make a rectangle with inside measurements of 12" x 14". This will fit over the dish nicely. Glue and pin a lid onto the sides, using 5mm thick MDF, or plywood. Fit two handles to the sides of the box, and glue thick black felt to the bottom edge that sits on the base.

Make the base from a flat sheet of 18mm thick chipboard, MDF, ply or blockboard. It should be at least 17" square if you make the box to the above sizes. Pin four thin strips of wood to form a guide to allow you to place the dish in the middle, in the dark. Fit some feet to the base, so you can get your fingers under it to agitate the dish during development.

I almost forgot. If you use 5" x 7" film, you can use this method to develop two sheets at a time, with a different rawlplug configuration.

Happy developing!

Dave miller 28th December 2009 05:35 PM

Seems to be a very cheap and simple solution Alan, thanks for posting.

Mike O'Pray 28th December 2009 08:18 PM

Alan I don't do 4x5 but this is the kind of article I like. Easy to read and understand, complete with good photos and backed by successful experience.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post.

Mike

Alan Clark 28th December 2009 08:48 PM

Thank you Mike. My pleasure!

Alan

JimW 29th December 2009 11:06 AM

I'm seconding Mike's comments. Thanks Alan.

Roger Hicks 9th January 2010 09:13 PM

Don't forget the Paterson Orbital! See

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subsc...20orbital.html

I find this easier than any other method.

EDIT: I see Dave Miller has already posted another (and probably easier) way of doing this. Sorry!

Cheers,

R.

Alan Clark 10th January 2010 09:28 AM

Hello Roger; welcome to the forum.
I agree that a Paterson Orbital is convnient to use. As my darkroom takes a few minutes to set up I use one myself if I only have three or four sheets of film to process. I load up in the cupboard under the stairs and then work at the kitchen sink. But Paterson Orbital processors are neither cheap nor particularly easy to come by, and I wrote the article to show that sheet film can be processed using very cheap and readily available equipment.

Alan

Roger Hicks 10th January 2010 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Clark (Post 22610)
Hello Roger; welcome to the forum.
I agree that a Paterson Orbital is convnient to use. As my darkroom takes a few minutes to set up I use one myself if I only have three or four sheets of film to process. I load up in the cupboard under the stairs and then work at the kitchen sink. But Paterson Orbital processors are neither cheap nor particularly easy to come by, and I wrote the article to show that sheet film can be processed using very cheap and readily available equipment.

Alan

Dear Alan,

From what I've seen, the prices are all over the place: £5 to £50. I fully take your point but I'd advise others to keep their eyes open in case they come up at under, say, £20.

Cheers,

R.

Dave miller 10th January 2010 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks (Post 22619)
Dear Alan,

From what I've seen, the prices are all over the place: £5 to £50. I fully take your point but I'd advise others to keep their eyes open in case they come up at under, say, £20.

Cheers,

R.

I agree, sub £20 they represent very good value.

Phil 11th January 2010 10:03 AM

This is simple and brilliant!
I tried the shuffling the stack method and must admit it was more like trying to count 15 tons of elvers, so have been developing sheets individually in 5x7 trays.
Must get the araldite out.
Phil

Keith Tapscott. 11th January 2010 12:37 PM

Personally, I would like to see Paterson Ltd design a series of light-proof trays with dividers and a ribbed base specifically for processing sheet-films of various format sizes.
I`m sure it is well within their capability provided that Large-Format camera users show enough interest in buying such products.

Alan Clark 11th January 2010 04:37 PM

Thanks Phil,
Good luck to you.

Alan

Steve Smith 12th January 2010 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks (Post 22601)
Don't forget the Paterson Orbital!

I think the Orbital is a great design which uses a minimum of solution to work. I couldn't believe it was enough until I tried it with the lid off.

Welcome to FADU Roger. Nice to hear from you again since you disappearerd from APUG.


Steve.

Keith Tapscott. 12th January 2010 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Smith (Post 22714)
I think the Orbital is a great design which uses a minimum of solution to work. I couldn't believe it was enough until I tried it with the lid off.

Welcome to FADU Roger. Nice to hear from you again since you disappearerd from APUG.


Steve.

I agree Steve, but think about having one around the size of a 12x16 inch size print trays that is specifically designed for processing several 4x5 or 5x7 inch films-sheets, two 8x10 inch film-sheets and a single 11x14 inch size film-sheet with a similar pour in-pour out light proof lid.
I think that it would be something worth having, but I don`t know if anyone else thinks the same. If there was enough interest from large-format camera owners, then perhaps Paterson Ltd might consider designing something like it. :)

Steve Smith 12th January 2010 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Tapscott. (Post 22728)
I agree Steve, but think about having one around the size of a 12x16 inch size print trays that is specifically designed for processing several 4x5 or 5x7 inch films-sheets, two 8x10 inch film-sheets and a single 11x14 inch size film-sheet with a similar pour in-pour out light proof lid.

I agree. I think your design is good too. I should have said that in my first post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Tapscott. (Post 22728)
If there was enough interest from large-format camera owners, then perhaps Paterson Ltd might consider designing something like it. :)

Perhaps Steve Smith and his CNC machine could have a go at making one out of PVC!


Steve.

Bob 12th January 2010 04:10 PM

Have moved Bill's ready-made Slosher post to: http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.or...2740#post22740

as an option for those without the necessary Blue Peter genes...

SueJanes 6th March 2010 07:44 AM

Mike, your developing box looks good. My current method uses 1300ml of chemical, so anything that will reduce that is going to be better for me. I happen to have a handy husband, who I am sure will be only too pleased to make me one. Thanks.:)

Barry 8th March 2010 08:17 PM

This is also a good option for those using unusual film formats eg whole plate, 7x11... Different tray size and plastic plug layout.

A Sanderson 12th March 2014 12:52 PM

Alan, you have a novel approach there and I'm sure it is very effective. I often process sheet film one at a time in a tray. If I could offer one bit of advice;
You don't need to worry about the light getting in after processing is complete (development). You can lift the lid once the dev is out and pour the stop, then fix in with the room lights on. There will be no difference in density, because the exposure you are giving it, isn't developed.

Alan Clark 12th March 2014 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Sanderson (Post 91480)
Alan, you have a novel approach there and I'm sure it is very effective. I often process sheet film one at a time in a tray. If I could offer one bit of advice;
You don't need to worry about the light getting in after processing is complete (development). You can lift the lid once the dev is out and pour the stop, then fix in with the room lights on. There will be no difference in density, because the exposure you are giving it, isn't developed.

This is interesting, and something I wouldn't have thought of or dared to do without endorsement! We are told to fix for twice the time it takes for the fix to clear the negatives. With the lights on it will be easy to time this.

Alan

richardw 12th March 2014 02:32 PM

Here is how to make the Paterson Orbital bombproof!

http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf

richard

Alan Clark 12th March 2014 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardw (Post 91485)
Here is how to make the Paterson Orbital bombproof!

http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf

richard

I think his method of lifting the edges an inch is asking for trouble and can lead to uneven development round the edges caused by developer bouncing off the sides of the tray.
This is something I should have emphasised more in my original article, though I did say the agitation should be gentle.
To be clear about this, when I use a tray as described in the article, and when I use a Paterson Orbital, I lift the corners by the absolute minimum amount I can manage, i.e. no more than a few millimetres. After gently lifting one corner like this I move straight to another corner, lifting sucessive corners in a random fashion. The objective is to get the developer to move very gently. That way you get even development.

Alan

richardw 13th March 2014 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Clark (Post 91487)
I think his method of lifting the edges an inch is asking for trouble and can lead to uneven development round the edges caused by developer bouncing off the sides of the tray.
This is something I should have emphasised more in my original article, though I did say the agitation should be gentle.
To be clear about this, when I use a tray as described in the article, and when I use a Paterson Orbital, I lift the corners by the absolute minimum amount I can manage, i.e. no more than a few millimetres. After gently lifting one corner like this I move straight to another corner, lifting sucessive corners in a random fashion. The objective is to get the developer to move very gently. That way you get even development.

Alan

Hmmm... It hasn't happened to me yet Alan, but I do use 1:100 and 1:500 working solutions of my favourite developers. I also pre-soak for 5 minutes in water before going on to developing. The lift and put down isn't violent or quick, so maybe that is why I get no uneven development?

richard

Alan Clark 13th March 2014 05:35 PM

Richard,as you are getting even development you will no doubt stick to what you are doing as it is obviously working for you. But if anyone is getting uneven development along an edge of the sheet of film adjacent to the outside of the container, then very gentle agitation is worth a try.

Alan

richardw 13th March 2014 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Clark (Post 91520)
Richard,as you are getting even development you will no doubt stick to what you are doing as it is obviously working for you. But if anyone is getting uneven development along an edge of the sheet of film adjacent to the outside of the container, then very gentle agitation is worth a try.

Alan

Good tip.

richard

Alan Clark 14th March 2014 12:17 PM

Richard, I notice you list angling as your main interest. I used to live not too far from you and used to fish the Dove a lot. Happy days!

Alan

richardw 14th March 2014 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Clark (Post 91542)
Richard, I notice you list angling as your main interest. I used to live not too far from you and used to fish the Dove a lot. Happy days!

Alan

I moved here from Sheffield to be on the waterside... The Dove can be a lovely river, it is only twenty minutes away over in the next valley from my "mother" river, the Derbyshire Wye.

You might enjoy this blog http://dryflyexpert.blogspot.co.uk/

Happy days indeed...
;)
richard

Alan Clark 14th March 2014 03:51 PM

Thanks for the link Richard. What an interesting site; complete with black and white photographs too. I take it you are "Regular Rod". It's the ideal thing to read through as I await the start of the trout season. (All those non-fishing types on FADU don't know what they're missing!)

Alan

Michael 14th March 2014 08:14 PM

Richard - This isn't the only thread that refers to the Orbital: there are a couple that started more recently and you can easily Search for them.

Mark J 20th January 2024 06:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The divided dish has been a game-changed for me, when using Pyro developer.
I just made a small one so far, for two-off 5x7" sheets. I drilled the dish and epoxied plastic bolts through from below, for a little more sturdiness. Easy to use when wearing rubber gloves, and no sign of flow-marks on negs as far as I can see ( the 5x7 sheets can move around a little, relative to the pegs, which helps) .
Next step - a bigger dish for 4-off.

Thanks Alan !

Alan Clark 20th January 2024 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark J (Post 151498)
The divided dish has been a game-changed for me, when using Pyro developer.
I just made a small one so far, for two-off 5x7" sheets. I drilled the dish and epoxied plastic bolts through from below, for a little more sturdiness. Easy to use when wearing rubber gloves, and no sign of flow-marks on negs as far as I can see ( the 5x7 sheets can move around a little, relative to the pegs, which helps) .
Next step - a bigger dish for 4-off.

Thanks Alan !

Mark, that's good to hear. I'm pleased you have found the divided dish idea useful.

Alan


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