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-   -   Ilford Ilfotec HC Users (http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13950)

B&W Neil 3rd October 2021 08:56 AM

1:49 times are available on the net. Or use Kodak's 1:63 times which I use - produces very nice negs. There are many different dilutions (unofficial and otherwise) to use including semi-stand and stand routines. Too many really - can be confusing, they all work, I've tried many. But the 1:63 suits me and I get very nice negs everytime with no faffing about :-) You pay your penny and you make your choice!

Ansel Adams used HC 110 and it is becasue of this that it is more popular in the USA than the UK.

Neil.

MartyNL 5th October 2021 11:16 PM

I had to throw away some paper developer today, a relatively new, unopened bottle of Tetenal Variobrom. Meanwhile, I cracked open my 2019 stock solution of Bromophen and it worked like a charm.
There’s something about the older chem’s, more robust, more reliable and generally a lot cheaper.
As much as I like to try new materials and support suppliers, I find myself coming back to the old faithfuls.

Miha 6th October 2021 06:40 PM

Ilfotec HC was my go-to developer for several years between 1998 and 2010, works really great with HP5+ in 135 even pushed all the way to EI 3200, always at 1+31, realy tight grain, easy to print negatives. I prefer it to DDX with this film.

Mike O'Pray 6th October 2021 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miha (Post 141731)
Ilfotec HC was my go-to developer for several years between 1998 and 2010, works really great with HP5+ in 135 even pushed all the way to EI 3200, always at 1+31, realy tight grain, easy to print negatives. I prefer it to DDX with this film.

Miha, is this the 1+31 based on the Ilford recommendation that you use a stock solution that is made up by diluting the concentrate 1L +3L of water , then dividing the 4L into 1L containers and using that at 1 part stock to 7 parts water to make up yet another litre which becomes the working developer for 1+31?

It all sounds quite complicated to me and means using a lot of bottles and mixing

Or do you use 1+31 as one part concentrate and 31 parts water which seems much less complicated and easier to mix but results in a slightly more concentrated developer?

Finally what time did you use for HP5+ at 3200? Ilford does give a time for HP5+ at 3200.

Thanks

Mike

Terry S 7th October 2021 12:07 PM

Having never used the Ilfotec HC developer before, and as a current user (happily for a good while now) of home mixed D76 / ID11, I have found my interest in Ilfotec HC peaked even more, after skim-reading the Ilford pages for its use.

It recommends mixing up a stock from the whole bottle and then further dilutions depending upon how you develop your films and then ending up with various bottles, which then need to be diluted further.

I have looked at The Massive Development Chart though, which gives more sensible options (at least in my eyes) when developing my go to film of Ilford HP5+ in Ilfotec HC, as it gives straight forward dilutions of the original developer, which I presume must need to be measured with a syringe?

I find it rather odd that Ilford seem quite adamant in their literature about not proceeding with direct dilutions from the original bottle.

So, does anyone take developer straight from the original bottle and then dilute it directly with water to make a working solution, inline with The Massive Development Chart?

I'm also curious as to why, when the whole dilution aspect is quite lengthy, that people use the developer at all? So what is it about the developer that people find so worthwhile with so many rules to follow, to then go and actually use it?

Terry S

Edit: and rereading the Ilford literature it states in paragraph one, on page one, ' Do not use ILFOTEC HC developer as replenisher.'

But it then says on page two, paragraphs nine and ten , 'Preparing stock replenisher Stock replenisher solution is prepared by diluting the concentrate 1+7 with water.' And 'Preparing working strength
replenisher solutions
'.

This just confuses me (and I'm sure others) even more and has definitely put me off even trying it!?!?

And carrying on reading the information, I now also question if the times mentioned on The Massive Development Chart are from original stock, directly from the original unopened bottle or whether the times and dilutions quoted are after making a stock solution first....?

I want my photography to be fun and NOT headache inducing!

Mike O'Pray 7th October 2021 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry S (Post 141746)

And carrying on reading the information, I now also question if the times mentioned on The Massive Development Chart are from original stock, directly from the original unopened bottle or whether the times and dilutions quoted are after making a stock solution first....?

I agree with all of your sentiments Terry and it was that part of you reply that I quote above that made me wonder as well. Is the MDC 1+31 the same as Ilford's 1+31 or is it 1 part concentrate plus 31 parts water?

That's why I have asked the question of Miha about how he arrives at his 1+31. However and based on my possibly "shaky" maths the Ilford two stage "1+31" is I think only marginally different but very slightly weaker than the concentrate 1+31

My instinct says that the two methods are close enough in terms of the dilution's final strength to make no real difference but I could be wrong .

Both methods involve a lot of squirts of gas unless it can be assumed that Ilfotec HC is more or less the same as HC110 or say Rodinal in terms of longevity whereby there is no need to squirt gas each time you deplete the 1L container of concentrate.

In my case for instance with a 135 film and Jobo tank I'd only need 7.5 cc of concentrate each time at the 1+31 dilution but eventually unless I had decanted the 1L into say a very small bottle of maybe 50cc I might need gas at some point

So it gets even more complicated with more questions than answers as things stand

Hopefully the 1L concentrate never needs any gas so all problems solved or second best it needs one squirt when you remove 25 or 50cc on concentrate and you then rely on the small bottle lasting a shorter time than the period beyond which gas has to be used

Mike

MartyNL 7th October 2021 01:39 PM

I mix Ilfotec HC neat using a syringe. I tend to shoot quite a lot of film and process in bulk but sporadically.
The time in-between can be quite long, anything up to 6 months. And in my experience at least, most developers, be it for paper or for film, lose potency or oxidize completely in this period.
I prefer to start with fresh chemicals wherever possible but I find decanting and filling to the brim the next best option for my situation.

Bill 7th October 2021 01:46 PM

I always dilute to whatever mix I am using straight from the bottle of concentrate. I have some very old measures from a colour kit I once used and as they are tall and narrow I find I can measure the small quantities I need. I have tried syringes but could not get on with those. For those worried about longevity my first bottle lasted 22 years with no gas squirts. My current bottle is relatively new at about 6 years and is working as it should.
I now only use HC for 4 x 5 processing. I use Tanol for 35mm and 120.

Bill

Mike O'Pray 7th October 2021 05:56 PM

Well, both Marty's and Bill's replies helps settle the key questions which are that using concentrate and avoiding the double dilution of the Ilford method is OK and that llford HC has a very long life based on Bill's experience

Marty, I wasn't so clear about your comment on longevity. Were you saying that HC loses its potency after 6 months or drawing the distinction between HC and the other developer which at best lose some potency and in the worst cases exhaust completely in as short as 6 months?

As far as dilution go, the MDC and Ilford give the same times for say HP5+ but this might simply mean that MDC expresses its 1+31 based on the same 1+3 then 1 + 7 to give Ilford's 1+31 or it could be that in the MDC's case it is a straight 1 part concentrate to 31 parts water

I cannot work out a way of telling but it may not matter based on the following

Ilford takes 100% concentrate, dilutes it to 25% (1+3 ) strength then further dilutes it to just over 1/8th of 25% Thus the final result is just over 3% of the original concentrate

Straight dilution to 1+31 is just over 3%. In fact the Ilford method and straight dilution from concentrate may even the exact same number

Mike

MartyNL 7th October 2021 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray (Post 141750)
Marty, I wasn't so clear about your comment on longevity. Were you saying that HC loses its potency after 6 months or drawing the distinction between HC and the other developer which at best lose some potency and in the worst cases exhaust completely in as short as 6 months?

Mike

The second. Drawing a distinction between Ilfotec HC and many other film and paper developers stored under the same conditions in my darkroom. Not very scientific, I know! :)


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