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  #1  
Old 21st January 2021, 07:04 PM
ShaneHull ShaneHull is offline
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Default ilford paper

I've just read somewhere that if you make a print with one type of Ilford paper, eg RC, you can make a print with a different type, eg Fibre, without altering the settings or exposure, and the print will be the same. Is this true? I always thought that there were differences, not only between paper types, but between batches of the same paper. I've been printing for 18 years, and have only just found this out. If it's true of course.
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Old 21st January 2021, 07:33 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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It sounds as if in 18 years you have yet to try a different llford paper at the same exposure to see if it's the same?

I haven't tried this myself either but my understanding is that the exposure is governed by the emulsion.

So the key question is: Is RC emulsion the same as FB? My recent "take" in this from other threads I have seen is that the new RC MG Deluxe, often referred to as MGV is very close indeed to the FB Classic

Only experimenting by trying will you know for definite but as long as all other things are equal as they say in terms of amount of light from the enlarger( bulb wattage), print size, contrast filter if used then the resultant print will come very close

Worth waiting for other replies of course as I may have missed something. It might be worth looking at the Ilford sheets on its papers RC vFB to see how close the ISO speeds for the papers are. If they are very close this will give an indication of how each reacts to the same exposure in terms of light intensity

Mike
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Old 21st January 2021, 08:25 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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There are differences between FB and RC papers, for example I use a analyser/pro, and the settings for FBWT fiber and RCWT RC are completely different, there are things like dry down which is a lot more with FB, which absorbs a lot more water than RC and so makes it more pronounced between the 2, to take another example, Adox MCP which is RC uses different settings than the MCC, which is FB, same emulsion coated on both papers, main difference is the paper it is coated, RC or FB, so same emulsion different papers the substrate, rc or fb make quite a difference, You can with the Ilford do you test strips and trial prints on RC, get it to where you eant the finished print to be, then make the adjustments and make the final print on FB, or you can do as I did 20 years ago and get an analyser/pro from RH Designs and save a fortune on paper, best investment I ever made,and when you get to understand you can be in total control, such as it may tell the ideal is grade 2, but you might want it on 3, so you use the info from the analyser to get the times for g3
Richard
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Old 21st January 2021, 08:56 PM
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MartyNL MartyNL is offline
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I do believe, historically and generally speaking, RC papers had faster iso ratings than FB papers. This is also why the more advanced/professional electronic enlargers had programable channels for different papers. Settings were also available for batch to batch refinements.

Interestingly enough, the "new" portfolio paper is supposed to be very close to MG FB Classic.
https://www.ilfordphoto.com//new-pro...-rc-portfolio/
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Old 22nd January 2021, 05:30 AM
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Uwe Pilz Uwe Pilz is offline
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I don't use an analyzer, but test strips. I always work the following way: I work out an exposure plan at smallish paper, mostly 18x24 cm². When I need an exhibition print, usually 30x40 cm², I make a single additional test strip. After this I can transpose the exposure plan to the large paper.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 10:40 AM
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Apparently the new ilford paper just released you will be able to do this without having to check test strip.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 11:03 AM
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Rob Archer Rob Archer is offline
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Ilford Warmtone FB is almost exactly a stop slower than Multigrade Classic FB. This means that if you are switching between those papers it's easy to control by either doubling/halving exposure time or opening/closing the aperture a stop. For critical exposure I still do a test strip but find it's rarely necessary. In my experience the other Ilford papers are less consistent. Batch-to-batch consistency is pretty good though, certainly in the more recent papers.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 11:15 AM
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The different Ilford papers are not identical (or they wouldn't be different papers!). RC papers are faster than fibre, and there's variation between the 'normal', cool, and warmtone versions. Add to that tiny batch variation, paper age and storage condition.
I only make test strips from sheets which come out of the same box my finished print will be made on.
You might well be OK testing then printing on sheets from 2 boxes of the same type and finish of the same age, but you just couldn't make a test strip on brand new RC 5 Delux before printing on 2 year old MG FB Warmtone.

I sometimes use a Paterson enlarging meter if I have a number of 'easy' negatives to print from. The first step is to calibrate the meter to the paper, and mark the box with a code letter which let's you set up the meter for that specific box of paper each time you use paper from it.
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Old 22nd January 2021, 12:35 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellum View Post
I sometimes use a Paterson enlarging meter if I have a number of 'easy' negatives to print from. The first step is to calibrate the meter to the paper, and mark the box with a code letter which let's you set up the meter for that specific box of paper each time you use paper from it.
Skellum, I too used to use one of the Paterson meters when first starting out, in the 1970's, but haven't used one since, as I now use an RH meter and test strips.

I have one of the Paterson meters stored away though, and am curious to try it again.

How accurate do you find it in use? I'm curious of your comment, that you mostly use it for quote, " 'easy' negatives to print". What would consider an 'easy' negative?

And to add to the main question, I have never found any of the papers that I use from the same manufacturer, to require the same exposure. I have notes on the boxes to say how much faster of slower it is, when compared to other materials that I use.

Terry S
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Old 22nd January 2021, 02:19 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skellum View Post
The different Ilford papers are not identical (or they wouldn't be different papers!). RC papers are faster than fibre, and there's variation between the 'normal', cool, and warmtone versions. Add to that tiny batch variation, paper age and storage condition.
I only make test strips from sheets which come out of the same box my finished print will be made on.
You might well be OK testing then printing on sheets from 2 boxes of the same type and finish of the same age, but you just couldn't make a test strip on brand new RC 5 Delux before printing on 2 year old MG FB Warmtone.

I sometimes use a Paterson enlarging meter if I have a number of 'easy' negatives to print from. The first step is to calibrate the meter to the paper, and mark the box with a code letter which let's you set up the meter for that specific box of paper each time you use paper from it.
The first darkroom meter I ever had was the Paterson cds meter, I remember that it wasn't too bad, it did the job for which it was intended , you had a diffuser under the lens, and would adjust the dial untill the yellow light just lit up, and that would give you the basic exposure, but of course dodging/burning you would need to work out for yourself, for simple, well exposed negatives, which needed little extra work it was fine, I It was the first of it's type on the market, and was a revelation to many young photographers around at the time, although I must admit my Ananlyser/pro does a lot more and gives me much greater control, but when the Paterson meter came out it was the bees knees, and a must have
Richard
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