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  #1  
Old 26th March 2021, 04:18 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Default Heavy fogging in a box of old FB paper

I recently bought an old box of 100 sheets of double weight, FB stipple, 3 1/2" x 5 1/2" paper off of ebay to try out. It came in the original box, with what looks like the original sellotape keeping it shut, so I'm presuming it's never been opened. And the price on it next to the date of 8-9-72?.... £0.80... yes, 80 of our current pennies!

As for the purchase price to me? It didn't cost me much, so no complaint there, but this is the first time I've tried out using older paper.

According to various sources, if an old paper is fogged, you add a small amount of Benzotriazole OR Potassium Bromide, as restrainers.

Following Tim Rudman's advice from his printing book, I made up a 1% solution of Benzotriazole and added varying amounts to my working developer solution. I added solutions from 1.5ml right up to 7.5ml, with the latter being higher than recommended. The developing time varied between one minute and eight minutes, when the chemical was added.

But if you look at the pictures attached, you will see that I get a silvery grey border, where the paper is under the printing frame margin, whatever the exposure and added amount of chemical. An unexposed test strip put in the developer and fix also comes out this colour but an unexposed and only fixed sheet, remains white, of which is laid underneath the two test strips shown.

One other strange thing, is that test strips given the same exposure and developed for the same length of time come out at different densities.

I'm going to try Potassium Bromide next, but does anyone know if this acts any differently to Benzotriazole, so may work?

I'm also wanting to hear feedback from anyone else who has tried old / vintage papers and how these came out.

I know I could use it for lumen prints and maybe some other sunshine processes, but would love to do some decent prints on it, if at all possible, as it is of a nice weight and has a lovely surface.

So can anyone offer some words of advice?

Terry S
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Old 26th March 2021, 04:48 PM
Molli Molli is offline
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The more Benzotriazole you use, the less sensitive the paper. Try increasing your exposure time rather than extending development times.
You can also give your prints a thirty second dip in a Potassium Ferricyanide bath afterwards to recover your highlights.
These are the two 'go to' things I do as I use all well out of date papers except for the family photo albums I put together (only because I don't have enough of any one type of paper to put together coherent sets).
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Old 26th March 2021, 05:24 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molli View Post
The more Benzotriazole you use, the less sensitive the paper. Try increasing your exposure time rather than extending development times.
You can also give your prints a thirty second dip in a Potassium Ferricyanide bath afterwards to recover your highlights.
A couple of good tips there. Many thanks Molli.

Terry S
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Old 26th March 2021, 07:20 PM
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Rob Archer Rob Archer is offline
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I've been using very old, fogged Kentona (which I was given free!) for lith prints with some success. The paper was fogged beyond 'normal' use, even with benzotriazole. Lith prints are usually not developed to completion and the few times I have I've bleached back a little in Farmer's reducer (although be warned that bleaching back can change the colour of lith prints in unpredictable ways).
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Old 26th March 2021, 07:33 PM
SlawekD SlawekD is offline
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Haha, regarding to he price you mentioned....Bill Brand was renting a flat close to Kings Cross station before WWII for £3.50 a week :-)

Times have changed indeed!
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Old 26th March 2021, 07:55 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by SlawekD View Post
Haha, regarding to he price you mentioned....Bill Brand was renting a flat close to Kings Cross station before WWII for £3.50 a week :-)

Times have changed indeed!
At the risk of turning this into a"Fings ain't what they used to be" reminiscence, £3.50 a week then was still not cheap by the standards of most of the U.K. I recall my parents' rent for a 3 bedroom semi with a reasonably sized garden front and back being 23 shillings or £1.15 a week in 1953

Mike
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Old 27th March 2021, 04:07 AM
Molli Molli is offline
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At the risk of encouraging a "Fings ain't what they used to be" reminiscence, I bought this Rondinax about five years ago which arrived complete with a hotel receipt inside. In case the images aren't clear (phone snaps):
"Motel receipt found in Rodinax Developing Tank bought on the 15th of February 2016 and sent from the seller in Tasmania to me here in Victoria. The tank's manual was printed in August of 1963 in England. The receipt is from the Commodore Motel in Jindabyne, New South Wales and dated the 18th November 1965. The receipt is for four pounds and four shilllings. The tank's price tag is Twelve pounds and two shillings.'"
Well before I was born, but doesn't that tank seem pricey by comparison?!

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Old 27th March 2021, 07:14 AM
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GoodOldNorm GoodOldNorm is offline
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May I suggest you try a pre-bath in 15ml benzo/litre water, but make a high concentrate print developer 24c. I found that you get more fog the longer the print is in the print dev. Compare your print to your previous attempts. I have loads of fogged paper, I have never tried lith printing but it is something I would like to try when time permits. I have made lumen prints with grasses and flowers.
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Old 28th March 2021, 12:20 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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OK, I was in the darkroom for a couple of hours yesterday, and I have finally solved the fogging issue, after numerous combinations of exposure, time in the developer and various quantities of benzotriazole.

Although weaker solutions of benzotriazole are suggested in various books and internet posts, I finally managed to get rid of the grey veil over all of the print, by using 6ml of a 1% solution of benzotriazole in 300ml of working strength developer = 20ml of 1% solution of benzotriazole per litre of working strength developer.

If by using this solution gives me continually good prints with the rest of the paper, I will be looking at trying some other outdated papers, which seem to come up for sale regularly, with most of them having a different print surface to what is now available.

Terry S
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Old 31st March 2021, 12:40 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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I did one more session in the darkroom yesterday, with the old and fogged FB paper from the 1970's and I have decided to draw a line.

Just when I thought I was getting somewhere, it became one step forward and two steps backwards.

I had managed to get rid of the fog in the paper, but each sheet reacts differently to the previous one. So just when I thought that I had got the exposure / development time right, the next sheet of paper reacts totally differently to the previous one. Hmph.

The bottom line is, that all of the prints made, look as if they are from a low contrast negative, which has then been printed on grade zero paper.

Obviously others out there get old paper to work, and who's to say if I bought another packet, that it might react in a better way and make some good prints?

At the moment though, I feel a little drained, so the paper will be used for lumen prints at least and I will return to my new packet of Ilford paper to print up the next print exchange pictures.

Will I try another packet in the future - who knows? But I have learnt not to expect too much from older papers and if I do buy some more, not to be too surprised if it too doesn't lead to anything.

So finally, does anyone else have a suggestion for this old paper? And has anyone else had a better experience, when using close to 50 year old paper? (It's strange, but just writing that last sentence and looking at the number 50, really should have told me not to expect much, if anything with it.)

Terry S
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