Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > Colour Work > Colour printing techniques

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19th August 2012, 07:41 AM
CambsIan's Avatar
CambsIan CambsIan is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 1,326
Default Colour Casts when printing

I've just tried my first ever batch of colour printing.

I am using a Opemus 6 with colour 3 head, ACP 400 roller transport processor, Kodak RT developer and Blix with Fuji Paper. Printing from 35mm. Developer temp checked an was 35C and developing time was checked and was 45 sec from entering developer to entering blix, as stated in the instruction manual.

I am really struggling with colour casts on the resulting prints.

I have so far pretty much used up 15 or so 10 x 8 papers and got absolutely nothing out that is useable. Some of these cut into four, so I guess about thirty prints in all. Every one which in frustration were thrown in the bin at the end of the session.

The picture is fine, sharp and with good definition but with lousy colour.

I sorted out the exposure first as suggested in several books and ignored the colours at this point, but really failed to get the hang of altering the colour.

My starting point was 45M and 50Y, as suggested after a "google" which gave me a horrible orange cast. It seemed that no matter how I tried to alter the head settings I could get nothing but an orange cast. Towards the end I did manage to get one with a green cast and one with a yellow cast. I guess I know that the filters work.

So I going to go back to basics, forget what I've already tried and start from the very begining again.

Could some one please save what hair I have left from being ripped out in frustration for a second time.

Any hints, tips, tricks or advice will most definitely be appreciated.

Just had a thought, would it be better to print from shots taken MF ? As I think I read somewhere that 35mm film has an orange base layer and 120 has a clear base layer is that right ?

Ian
__________________
Learn to live, live to learn

Last edited by CambsIan; 19th August 2012 at 07:45 AM. Reason: added extra info
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th August 2012, 10:29 AM
PaulBJE PaulBJE is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kingsclere - North Hampshire
Posts: 170
Default

Ian,
I have been colour printing MF for the last 9 Months and achieved perfect colour balance by following 'A PRIMER ON COLOR PRINTING' by Terry Staler, which I downloaded from the internet following advice fro someone on the forum. It is very methodical and contains some good advice. I have no idea whether 35mm film base is different from MF, but I don't see why it should be.

Unfortunately I have not kept the web address but you should be able to find it on Google.

Hope it helps,
Regards,
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19th August 2012, 10:56 AM
Jon Butler's Avatar
Jon Butler Jon Butler is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London
Posts: 776
Default

If your still seeing the base orange cast you need more filtration try 60/80
to start with and increase until untill it's gone. You then have to fine tune the filtration by using viewing filters.

All normal colour negative films have a orange base.

Don't worry, when you sort out colour printing it's much easer to get good results then trying to produce a fine print in B&W.
J.
__________________
JB-Creative Imagery
Jon Butler.

http://real-silver-prints.com/

"I Prefer it in the Dark"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th August 2012, 11:50 AM
marty marty is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 340
Default

Hello, there.
I think it is pretty normal at the beginning "wasting" an awful number of sheets in proofs, even without getting anything useful. I've been there too. My best advice is to choose a negative which has a white portion that can be used as a "reference", it'll be easier that way. The casts have to "sorted" one at a time, adding the same color to the filter pack. The real problem lies in that the eyes, such complex and marvelous "instrument", try to "compensate" the cast making the things harder, moving the gaze from a "known good" print and the working one helps to make a color cast more evident. The viewing filters are surely an invaluable help, if one only could find them these days ... Don't give up, you are way better equipped than I am and you will eventually succeed. Once the color balance is reached stick with that film and paper and in most cases it will always be the same. Another tip is to shoot a color card for reference, even make your own or find one on the net and print it out on matte paper.

Cheers, M.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th August 2012, 01:35 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

My commiserations, Ian. Getting the colour balance right in the first place is the major mountain to climb in RA4. People will say that colour printing is easier than B&W and once you have it right they may well be right but getting there is a frustrating road.

The difference between B&W and RA4 is that a B&W print can often look at least acceptable after one or two attempts but the dreaded cast in RA4 and our ability to discern even slight casts ensures that nothing less than near perfection will do.

Anyway down to practicalities. I have often see 45M and 50Y as the suggested starting filtration but my experience has been that both Kodak and Fuji paper need much higher settings

It may be that higher than 60/80 as suggested may be better. I take it that you are using a colour head. If so I'd initially avoid more than 5 between Y and M i.e. if you increase one by 5 each time then do so with the other. 20 may be too much.

I'd choose a good range of colours in the neg and then use small prints to cover the same section of the print in each case. Dividing a 8x10 into four 5x4 sections is ideal. Jobo does a piece of equipment which has 4 sections which you lift in turn to expose each new filter combo.

Don't forget that as you increase filtration you need to increase exposure, especially M. Good colour printing books usually give fiter factors to apply

Finally and depressingly you do need to waste a lot of paper in the beginning. Treat it as a learning experience, play the "long game" and learn not to respond to those who keep asking when what stopping you producing 36 perfect prints in about an hour, should there be such impatient people in your household!

One final thing although I don't think this is your problem. Ensure that each time you place the filters back into the light path if there is a whitelight lever that takes the filters out of the path.

I kept on changing my filters and kept on getting a distinct reddish cast. I was about to reach for the "end it all" pills when I noticed I had in my agitated state forgotten to lower the lever that put the filters back into the lightpath

This was a Durst colour enlarger.

Let us know how it goes

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19th August 2012, 07:33 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

I have been able to check on filtrations I used in 2004 and then 45M and 50Y would have been very close. Almost every print was somewhere between 45 -48M and 50-55Y. However this was Kodak Supra III paper which I had been given when I bought my Jobo gear for RA4. I suspect that the figures quoted belong to paper of a different era.

I recently set up my analyser a Colorstar 3000 again. This time with fairly old Supra Endura( the paper that came after SupraIII) and on what I regard as a neg with a good range of colours a reasonable print came out at 92Y and 96M.

This is vastly different from earlier paper as you can see. I have had a chance to check filtration for Fuji paper( this time MP) and the difference between Fuji MP and Kodak Supra Endura was very little. 45/50 would have been a good starting point for either.

Now I think we are onto Fuji CA which may be different and Fuji stuff is the only one available as fresh paper in sheet sizes and I
think, Kodak still produces Supra Endura which may be the same as my stuff but is only sold in drums.

Pity no-one has tried to set up a small scale cutting line for Kodak paper.

Anyway I think my research has gone some way to explain why 45/50 came about and is still quoted even if it seems to be out of date and may give you heart that if 92/96 on a Durst enlarger is needed for a neutral print then don't give up until you are up in those figures, allowing for its conversion to what may be a different enlarger group in your case.

I hope this helps

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19th August 2012, 08:18 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Daventry, Northants
Posts: 8,969
Default

Ian, just a further update if I may which appears to throw a spanner in the works but is based on a thread I have just seen so thought I'd throw it in.

If you use or will in the future use Fuji Crystal Archive Type II which seems to be the only paper available fresh for sheet users then it appears that 55Y and 45M just about nails the colour balance.

The user doesn't specify the enlarger used however which is important as units vary. Some have a bigger range so 55/45 on an enlarger which goes from 0-130( Durst 605) isn't the same as 55/45 on a 0-200 which I think some enlargers are.

It might even be that 55/45 is based on coloured sheets(in CC units) if the enlarger doesn't have a colour head.

This is the first time I had seen a starting filtration for Fuji CA Type II so good to know

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 20th August 2012, 06:55 AM
photomi7ch's Avatar
photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 2,516
Default

Hi Ian I would like to add at one time you could get colour correction filters which helped take some of the gess work out of it.
__________________
Mitch

http://photomi7ch.blogspot.com/

If you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable must be the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 20th August 2012, 09:09 AM
PaulBJE PaulBJE is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kingsclere - North Hampshire
Posts: 170
Default

Ian,
One thing I forgot to mention in my post is that I got one of my first films printed by a lab so that I had something to match my colours to.
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20th August 2012, 12:51 PM
paulc paulc is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nestled in the foothills of Norfolk.
Posts: 931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CambsIan View Post
I have so far pretty much used up 15 or so 10 x 8 papers and got absolutely nothing out that is useable. Some of these cut into four, so I guess about thirty prints in all. Every one which in frustration were thrown in the bin at the end of the session.
Ian - If you find yourself in Norfolk at any time, I have an unopened roll of 8" Kodak Edge paper you can have for the price of a beer. Not willing to post as it weighs 10Kg. Might even be able to find a set of Kodak viewing filters..
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Experience and advice on printing colour negatives as a B+W print MartyNL Monochrome printing techniques 25 22nd November 2013 02:43 PM
Opemus with colour head for B+W printing MikeS Darkroom 7 1st May 2012 09:09 PM
RA4 Colour Printing pentaxpete Colour printing techniques 7 8th September 2009 07:49 PM
Printing B&W from colour transparencies? kennethcooke Ask Les 2 22nd July 2009 07:52 PM
Printing on Graded Paper Using a Colour Head Neil Smith Monochrome printing techniques 8 17th May 2009 11:03 AM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.