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  #1  
Old 23rd November 2012, 10:45 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default Black and white with RA4

I did something tonight I have thought about but never done before and that was printed a Kentmere Film B&W negative onto RA4 FUJI paper and got quite a reasonable print more or less the 1st time.

With the negative in the holder I placed a piece of processed but unexposed and blank colour negative over the top of the B&W negative but on the top of the negative holder so there was a 1mm (aprox) gap between the two surfaces and then made a test print. The colour balance needed a bit of adjustment but I finished up with a warm tone B&W print, warmer than Ilford Multigrade warm tone but not as warm as a sepia print. I will try this again and see if I can get the tones a bit cooler and more like a normal B&W image.

It's nice to have a fiddle and get something out of it. Once I have perfected it I will post the two prints for comparison

Filtration on the LPL enlarger was 5Y 20M. I think another 5Y and possibly 10M will do it
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Old 2nd December 2012, 08:10 PM
Peter Fitz Peter Fitz is offline
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Trying to print a neutral B&W image from a B&W neg with RA4 chemistry can be a tricky but useful exercise. It helps identifying colour casts but a pure B&W print cannot usually be achieved, at least in my experience.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 08:38 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Interesting experiment, John. If the RA4 chems are handy and you know the filtration, it could be a quick, if less permanent way to Sepia-like prints.

My local colour mini-lab which is set up for RA4 only gets pretty close to a neutral B&W print from B&W negs.

I have often wondered how much fiddling would be required to do the same as you with a Durst head. I think LPL use a different system so if 5Y and 20M was warm then I'd have to work out the equivalent.

Mike
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Old 2nd December 2012, 10:35 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default colour filtration

LPL Colour values are in Kodak units and durst in .... well Durst units. They all start off with a zero but the curves produced by the different filtration levels are not evenly matched up the scale.

I used a durst colour enlarger a few years ago after I sold my original LPL and quite simply could not get on with it. I was too ingrained with the Kodak values after 12 years or so.

Can I suggest starting of making a print with the setup I used but with a Durst enlarger to get a good color print with no colour casts. Then taking into consideration the pale blue/grey tint of most film bases play around a little with the yellow chanel to see if that gets you close to a B&W print print with no obvious colour cast.

The colour tone, is as one other post stated, that you cannot get a pure B&W is largely correct. What I have achieved is very close to an Ilford warm-tone print.

I haven't been in my darkroom for a week or so to continue the experiment but may be able to do so tomorrow evening.
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Old 2nd December 2012, 11:27 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Yes, I see little point in producing a neutral B&W on RA4 paper. I can do this easier and better with B&W negs and B&W paper.

However it is a warm brownish tone for a B&W neg on RA4 that attracts me.

Mike
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Old 4th December 2012, 12:41 PM
John King John King is offline
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Default B&W Neg on RA4 Paper

One of the images I spoke about. The one that appears warmer colour was using Kentmere 100 film processed in ID11 and printed as described using blank processed colour film as an initial filtration. The LPL filtration was set at 5Y 7.5 M..The colour chemicals were Kodak Ektacolor and the paper Fuji Crystal Achive.

The second image filtration was altered to 7.5Y and 15M and the result is as seen. The tones are not far off the originals
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Name:	B&W Neg on RA4 altered filtration.jpg
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Old 4th December 2012, 01:30 PM
JohnArt JohnArt is offline
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Really like the first image John.
I do colour & B&W (which I always sepia tone) so will give this a go.
I remember doing a set of four prints for exhibition a few years ago when by mistake I got a brown/yellow print and liked the effect so much I printed the set the same. It got favorable comments but I never tried it again.
Thanks for sharing your results.
John
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Old 4th December 2012, 02:07 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks John. They are both warmish but the second is more subtle It just goes to show that "warmth " requires very little in the way of filtration at 5Y and 7.5M

mike
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