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  #21  
Old 30th June 2020, 12:06 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by John King View Post
If the kit suggests 45 seconds for the bleach fix This is hardly long enough for the bleach to neutralise the left over developer never mind bleach the unused emulsion away.

Even using a stop bath with continuous agitation for films to neutralise developer the recommended time is 30 seconds. To be honest I feel the times are suspect.

I wonder if there has been something missed in the translation?
I should have added to my "mid July" the year which was 2017 so quite some time ago. On the Nik and Trick site the original Bellini instructions are no longer there but yes the developer amount seems to have changed from 100ml conc to 240ml conc which is quite a difference.

The whole ambience around the instructions suggests a kind of casualness that is a bit worrying- well for me at least. It prompts more questions than there are answers

Someone if I recall on the long thread on Photrio did try and get an answer from N&T but had no success.

The kit based on Alex' negatives look OK but maybe not as clear and crisp as I had expected. My worry however is that I am prejudiced in what I think I see because of the amazing times especially the 45 secs the instructions give.

The 45 secs were there in mid 2017 and remain to this day. Yes it is easy to perpetuate a mistake but in this case I don't think it is a mistake in translation

Mike
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  #22  
Old 30th June 2020, 09:38 AM
EdmundH EdmundH is offline
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Nearly all of my colour film developing has been done with these Bellini kits, so I can definitely say that their recommended times and dilutions work perfectly.

To avoid problems with tap water, I always mix the chemicals with deionised water, including the stabiliser. When correctly mixed, you end up with one litre each of Developer, Bleach, and Fix. These are all returned to the bottles after use.
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  #23  
Old 30th June 2020, 09:50 AM
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DaveInElland DaveInElland is offline
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Originally Posted by EdmundH View Post
Nearly all of my colour film developing has been done with these Bellini kits, so I can definitely say that their recommended times and dilutions work perfectly.

To avoid problems with tap water, I always mix the chemicals with deionised water, including the stabiliser. When correctly mixed, you end up with one litre each of Developer, Bleach, and Fix. These are all returned to the bottles after use.
That has been my experience too Edmund. I also use deionised water when mixing the chemicals. I also follow the recommended timings exactly. Before buying my first kit (Iím on my second) I read a blog post (which I canít find now!!) and in that the author also stated that whilst the timings were at odds with his experience they did work.
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  #24  
Old 30th June 2020, 10:37 AM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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I filtered the water to make the stabiliser solution. I think Iíll pick up some deionised water and make a new 5 litre batch before the next session.
Alex


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  #25  
Old 30th June 2020, 10:51 AM
EdmundH EdmundH is offline
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I filtered the water to make the stabiliser solution. I think Iíll pick up some deionised water and make a new 5 litre batch before the next session.
Alex


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It removes all uncertainty about what's in the water. You can buy 25 litre kegs of deionised water from commercial motor factors, I think I pay around £14
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  #26  
Old 30th June 2020, 02:57 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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OK and thanks for the answers but can I get clarification as I am unsure on certain Bellini/N&T instructions which appear vague.

1. Is the developer conc a bottle now containing 240ml to which you add 760ml of water to make 1L? It is not a 100ml bottle as seemed to be the case in the 2017 Bellini instructions.
2. None of you users use a water wash between dev and bleach or bleach and fix?
3. What is the dilution level of the stab-wash. It looks to be 10ml stab to 990ml water making 1L but how exactly in terms of time(10-30 secs are suggested in a form of dip and dunk) and ml content do you use the stab-wash . It makes 10L in total but as even N&T say this is impractical to mix in one go so do you make up say 1L at a time for say 1 film and use a form of Ilford wash such as 200ml per tank with 5 inversions then dump then 200ml more and then 10 inversions etc

4. Do any of you use a Jobo rotary processor and if so do you alter the amounts of dev, bleach and fix used per tank?

I think the answer to 4 is likely to be No but I thought it worth asking

Thanks

Mike
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  #27  
Old 30th June 2020, 04:26 PM
EdmundH EdmundH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
OK and thanks for the answers but can I get clarification as I am unsure on certain Bellini/N&T instructions which appear vague.

1. Is the developer conc a bottle now containing 240ml to which you add 760ml of water to make 1L? It is not a 100ml bottle as seemed to be the case in the 2017 Bellini instructions.
2. None of you users use a water wash between dev and bleach or bleach and fix?
3. What is the dilution level of the stab-wash. It looks to be 10ml stab to 990ml water making 1L but how exactly in terms of time(10-30 secs are suggested in a form of dip and dunk) and ml content do you use the stab-wash . It makes 10L in total but as even N&T say this is impractical to mix in one go so do you make up say 1L at a time for say 1 film and use a form of Ilford wash such as 200ml per tank with 5 inversions then dump then 200ml more and then 10 inversions etc

4. Do any of you use a Jobo rotary processor and if so do you alter the amounts of dev, bleach and fix used per tank?

I think the answer to 4 is likely to be No but I thought it worth asking

Thanks

Mike
1) Yes, add 760ml to the developer concentrate, so you end up with 1 litre.

2) I think that a water wash would not kill the developer quickly enough. Its a very active formulation compared to B&W. I have sometimes used a stop bath between the developer and bleach, but its apparently unnecessary and not recommended.

3) Stabiliser 10ml to 990ml water. 10 litres is a lot to store, so just make up a litre at a time. I personally do the main washing of the film in warm water, then final couple of washes in the stabiliser, otherwise I always run out of stabiliser.

4) There are forum members who use rotary processors. However, I use a Nova heated unit which holds three chemical bottles plus a Paterson tank, all in a heated bath, so the agitation is done manually.
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  #28  
Old 30th June 2020, 06:47 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks Edmund. So it would appear that somewhere along the line between 2017 and the present day Bellini changed the size of its concentrate from 100ml to 240ml. Presumably there was a reason but as long as both concs work then it doesn't really matter

I think the water wash between stages is simply to prevent carryover from say dev to bleach but as the carryover is limited anyway this may not matter

Do you only bleach for 45 secs or use a longer time? I must admit to being very nervous about whether the bleach can do its job in 45 secs
How many films do you stabilise with the 1L before dumping it and moving on to another new 1L? This bring me on to the final question as this will affect how far 1L of stab has to stretch and this is: How many films do you get out the the kit?

Thanks

Mike
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  #29  
Old 30th June 2020, 07:44 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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Mike, the kit tells you it will do up to 16 films. It suggests that the stabiliser can be re-used, but doesnít say for how many films. I take it that it doesnít exhaust as such, but it might be sensible to change it every so often. With 10 litres available in the kit, that should easily do for 16 films.
Edmund, thanks for the tip about the de-ionised water. I will definitely try that. It might help for mixing my normal B&W chemicals too.
Alex.


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  #30  
Old 30th June 2020, 09:16 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Alex, thanks. I just wondered if anyone had managed more than 16 films but in that case the possible exhaustion of the bleach and fix come into the equation and as the kit is sold as a kit without separate parts then there may be no point in trying to even stretch any part of the kit.

Mike

What might be relevant in terms of getting more from the kit is whether a Jobo rotary processor which uses half the chemical quantity of inversion does extend the use of the kit but then again the logic may say that if each chemical's exhaustion is geared to film developed in terms of square inches then the square inches involved remains the same over 16 films irrespective of whether you use 140 ml ( rotary ) or 250 ml inversion.
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