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  #1  
Old 18th February 2019, 02:00 PM
Hansm Hansm is offline
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Default Question about alcalic fixer

I used PMK Pyro for a while but was not so happy with the result.
Quitte Some iso lost with Foma film.
So I moved to Kodak D76 wich gives a little more sensitivity.

With the pyro I used alcalic fixer and could usually do about 15 films with it.
I made a fresh mix beginning of January and fixed about 10 films with it.
The first 6 were developed with pmk, the last 4 with D76.
The last 2 are not completely clear after 5 minutes fixing time, so I have to make a fresh mix again.
Does alcalic fixer not work well with films developed in non staining developers?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 18th February 2019, 03:24 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansm View Post
The last 2 are not completely clear after 5 minutes fixing time, so I have to make a fresh mix again.

Does alcalic fixer not work well with films developed in non staining developers?
My first thought is that the fixer is slowing down, as would be expected after so many films being put through the solution.

I would put the films back in the fixer until they clear and then do a clip test eg with the beginning of a film in daylight, to see how long the fixer now takes to clear the next film and then base your new times on that.

If there is anything different that should be done in the world of non staining developers, I believe there are a few people on this forum who use them and will tell you.

Terry S
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Old 18th February 2019, 06:26 PM
Hansm Hansm is offline
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Thanks Terry.

I made a fresh mix already and refixed and washed the film, now it’s ok.

Maybe it was more quickly exhausted because of the “mix” between pmk and D76?
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Old 18th February 2019, 11:56 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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When developing with D76, are you using an acetic acid stop bath between developer and fixer, that you would not have used with PMK? If so, that could be at the root of this.
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Old 19th February 2019, 09:37 AM
Hansm Hansm is offline
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Hi Sven,

Indeed I didn’t use a stopbath. Just fresh water as I did with pmk.
Maybe I should start using a stopbath in all cases.

Thank you!
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:08 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Hi Hans,

I wouldn't use an acid stop with alkaline fixer. If using an alkaline fixer, as you are, then using an acid stop will carry over acid into the fixer and thereby contaminating it and exhausting it. This will cause it to lose activity sooner than if you used just a water stop.

OTOH, if you are using an acid fixer then using an acid stop bath (or water) is fine.

Not to confuse things too much, but it's worth noting that the same effect (just the other way 'round, pH wise) happens if you were to use an acid fixer and skip the stop or water rinse entirely, and put the film directly from developer straight into the fixer. The alkaline developer contaminates the acid fixer and it's useful life is reduced.

So for alkaline fixer use water rinse only. For acid fixer either water or acetic acid stop is fine.

Terry's suggestion of a clip test is sound advice. I do this now as a matter of routine whenever I use a developer or fixer that has either been sitting on the shelf for a few months, or has had quite a few films run through. Just takes a few extra minutes, and is well worth doing to reassure that all chemicals are still active.

Best,
Svend
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Old 19th February 2019, 02:55 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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The rule of thumb is , when you mix a fresh batch of working strength fixer, time how long it takes for the film leader to clear. Then do this each time before re-using it. When the clearing time doubles, discard the fixer.
How long to fix a film? Twice the time the leader took to clear.

Alan
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  #8  
Old 20th February 2019, 06:51 AM
Hansm Hansm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvendN View Post
Hi Hans,

I wouldn't use an acid stop with alkaline fixer. If using an alkaline fixer, as you are, then using an acid stop will carry over acid into the fixer and thereby contaminating it and exhausting it. This will cause it to lose activity sooner than if you used just a water stop.

OTOH, if you are using an acid fixer then using an acid stop bath (or water) is fine.

Not to confuse things too much, but it's worth noting that the same effect (just the other way 'round, pH wise) happens if you were to use an acid fixer and skip the stop or water rinse entirely, and put the film directly from developer straight into the fixer. The alkaline developer contaminates the acid fixer and it's useful life is reduced.

So for alkaline fixer use water rinse only. For acid fixer either water or acetic acid stop is fine.


Best,
Svend
Thanks Svend,
Makes sense :-)

I will add your routine in my workflow.

Thanks Alan for your explanation.
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