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  #11  
Old 4th October 2017, 06:27 PM
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GoodOldNorm GoodOldNorm is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Gould View Post
I feel for you Norm, a frozen shoulder is no fun, I know as I suffered with one a couple of years ago, took quite a while to get over it, even with physio therapy, and for me it was all because I got a flat battery and needed to push my old Escort to reach the power to charge the thing, I slipped and fell awkwardly and paid for it, hope you get over it soon, as far as powder developers are concerned, I very rarely use them, I would mix 1 liter of D76/1d11 and follow the ilford directions, I had a label with the number of films I could develop in stock and tick the off till I got to the tenth film, then start again, These days I have returned to my all time favorite Rodinal
Richard
Thank you for your concern Richard, my shoulder is not to bad it should be OK with a course of therapy, I have been warming it up in the local sauna and doing exercises with a wide rubber band. I am just trying to get a grasp of how to use Perceptol with 120 film, I'm just messing about really. Perhaps it was not a good idea to fill my head with numbers when it feels like my brain has turned to porridge. Wow! the Tramadol pain killing tablets are horrible, don't know how anyone could become addicted to them, it's mentally and physically challenging just trying to function normally. I do try other developers now and again just for the fun of it. I am reading and yawning my way through Way Beyond Monochrome 2 at the moment and I cannot find a reason to argue with the authors who believe that there are no "magic bullets". Perhaps I could make a developer from Tramadol
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  #12  
Old 4th October 2017, 08:00 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Not the easiest of books, Norm, in terms of content to absorb or strength to even hold it, if you are suffering from such a condition. I had a frozen shoulder or so the doctor said from overuse of a Kango Hammer one weekend many years ago. I didn't feel a thing at the time of use unfortunately. The shoulders, once affected, can be swines to get better but if my experience of that and a pinched nerve in the shoulder is anything to go by then time is your friend and it will get better

Mike
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  #13  
Old 4th October 2017, 08:59 PM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is online now
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Hi Norm

I think you need to do a bit more research and visit the Ilford web site.

From the data sheet I have from Ilford on their developers :-

REUSING DEVELOPER WITHOUT REPLENISHMENT (unreplenished)

ID-11, MICROPHEN and PERCEPTOL stock developers can be used in spiral tanks or deep tanks without replenishment to process either a number of films individually or multiple films in batches.

The table below gives the number of 135/36 or 120 roll films a litre of stock PERCEPTOL, ID-11 and MICROPHEN can process provided that the
developer is reused.

Stock films/litre
PERCEPTOL 4
ID-11 10
MICROPHEN 10

As each film or batch of films is processed it releases halides and other by-products into the developer that act as a restrainer on the development of subsequent films. For this reason development times will need some adjustment after each successive film or batch of films. To calculate the adjustment a tally must be kept of the number of films processed in the developer solution.

If a series of individual films is being developed in a spiral tank using 1 litre of stock ID-11 or MICROPHEN or PERCEPTOL, compensate for the loss of developer activity after developing the first film by increasing the development time 10% for each successive film, (see table below). This developer, (250 -300ml for one film), being poured back into the stock bottle and mixed with the fresh unused part of the developer before processing the next film. When using spiral tanks this helps to give more consistent results by reducing the risks of problems due to solution
losses and the restraining effect of the by-products.

PERCEPTOL

For 1L of stock (neat) developer

N = standard development time

First Film = N

2nd Film = N+10%

3rd Film = N+20%

4th Film = N+ 30%

5th film = not recommended

Martin
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  #14  
Old 4th October 2017, 10:04 PM
Bob Smith Bob Smith is offline
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I use Perceptol 1+1 using a jobo cpe2 with lift, multi tank 6 x2 1litre in each tank (overfilling does strain the motor) 12 films from one packet.
I keep exposed films in the fridge.
The best results are using perceptol at 1+3 and filling tanks really full, but hand problems put paid to that, you cannot use 1+3 in a cpe2

Bob
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  #15  
Old 5th October 2017, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Aislabie View Post
Hi Norm

I think you need to do a bit more research and visit the Ilford web site.

PERCEPTOL

For 1L of stock (neat) developer

N = standard development time

First Film = N

2nd Film = N+10%

3rd Film = N+20%

4th Film = N+ 30%

5th film = not recommended[/I][/INDENT][/COLOR]
Martin
Thank you Martin, you are of course correct, Ilford will have researched their products extensively. There is a lot of information on the internet some of it is not backed up by science. When I get the time I will have a go with Perceptol, from what I can gather the 1+3 dilution gives the appearance of more grain with 35mm films so it is probably better used for my purpose using 120 film. In future when looking for information I will go to the manufacturers site first and then do my own research and tests.
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Last edited by GoodOldNorm; 5th October 2017 at 07:03 AM. Reason: edited text
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  #16  
Old 5th October 2017, 04:26 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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I am not surprised that there is some confusion about Perceptol's effect on film speed when used at different dilutions. According to the information printed on a packet of Perceptol that I just bought from Ilford, you can use Pan F, Delta 100 and FP4+ at full box speed when using Perceptol at 1+0, 1+1 or 1+3. (So for these films the popular notion that Peceptol reduces film speed is, presumably, a myth) But you can't get full box speed from HP5+ or Delta 400. If you use it at 1+0 (i.e. stock solution) with HP5+ you only get a speed of 250. This goes up to 320 if you use the 1+1 or 1+3 dilutions. Ditto for Delta 400 except they don't give a time for the 1+3 dilution. (So the for 400 speed films the popular notion that Perceptol reduces film speed is not a myth, apparently...)

Confused? Don't blame me folks. But do check out Ilford's fact sheet if you intend using Perceptol for the first time.

I hope this doesn't put anyone off Perceptol. The 1+3 dilution with 35mm FP4+ is superb.

Alan
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  #17  
Old 6th October 2017, 04:38 AM
Slixtiesix Slixtiesix is offline
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You do not need 200 ml of stock solution with Perceptol. This is an urban myth that was caused by a common misinterpretation of the instructions. We had a long thread about this some time ago and came to the conclusion that 100 ml or even less is fully sufficient. I usually use 125 ml + 375 ml of water to full satisfaction.
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  #18  
Old 6th October 2017, 03:47 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slixtiesix View Post
You do not need 200 ml of stock solution with Perceptol. This is an urban myth that was caused by a common misinterpretation of the instructions. We had a long thread about this some time ago and came to the conclusion that 100 ml or even less is fully sufficient. I usually use 125 ml + 375 ml of water to full satisfaction.
Yes I am sure you are right. As I said in my post I developed 135 HP5+ at 320 at 1+3 in a Jobo so it was 250ml divided by 4 which meant 65ml of stock and 185ml water. The negatives looked fine

Mike
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  #19  
Old 6th October 2017, 04:02 PM
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According to the information printed on a packet of Perceptol that I just bought from Ilford,

Confused? Don't blame me folks. But do check out Ilford's fact sheet if you intend using Perceptol for the first time.

I hope this doesn't put anyone off Perceptol. The 1+3 dilution with 35mm FP4+ is superb.

Alan[/QUOTE] What I find most frustrating about the instructions on the inside of the Perceptol box is the small print and poor layout. Also there are no suggested ball park development times for quite a few films. What about Fuji Acros 100, the offerings from: Rollei, Adox, Foma and their own Kentmere and Ilford Pan? The Perceptol box/instructions I have got is quite old, is there a link to Ilfords website/data sheets printed on the latest packaging?
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  #20  
Old 6th October 2017, 04:25 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Norm, PanF, Kentmere 100 and Kentmere 400 are actually listed in the instructions on the Perceptol packet. And they do list times for some non-Ilford films. I actually think this is quite laudable of them. If you look at Kodak's instructions for , say, D76, you only get times for Kodak films.
Norm, if you want Ilford's latest data sheet, the website on my new packet is www.ilfordphoto.com

Alan
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