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  #21  
Old 12th November 2021, 02:34 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
I have made a formal complaint to the park and after reading their T+C's, it appears that I mustn't say anything / too much on social media.

So to be on the safe side, I'll go a bit quiet on this matter for a while, until I get a reply.

Terry S
A sinister sounding warning not to say too much on social media is a new one on me. I wonder if this forum is classified as social media

It may be that any of your respondents here may have to carry guilt as well as a form of co-conspirators and will be equally at risk of a "middle of the night visit"

Here's one joke I have always liked:

It's the early 1950s and three ex-service men have just bumped into one another, a Brit, an American and a Russian. The subject gets round to sounds that mean a lot to them.

The Brit says the sound of the band of the Coldstream Guards, the American says the sound of Glenn Miller. However the Russian says the sound of his own voice. The other two look at him puzzled and he adds: Yes it is 3:00am and there is a knock on the door. Three large men in black coats say: Ivan Ivanovich? and I hear the sound of my own voice saying: "No, he lives next door"

Mike
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  #22  
Old 12th November 2021, 09:36 PM
John King John King is offline
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I have looked at their terms and conditions too and it looks very much in keeping with the uniformed bully boy tactics. People like that make threats with the hope it will go away.

It is up to you but I'm disappointed you had to put up with it in the 1st place.
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  #23  
Old 14th November 2021, 07:19 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nat Polton View Post
I have a copy of an excellent little book, giving general advice on the laws affecting photography.
It is on the bay secondhand for only about three UK pounds including postage.
Second edition, blue cover, and slightly more up to date, was printed in 1989.


Title.
THE PHOTOGRAPHER AND THE LAW. by DON CASSELL




I would have liked to scan the contents page, but as the first chapter covers copyright I thought better.

When printed twenty two years ago things were a bit different and most people were simply polite to each other without trying to force some whacky p.c. theme or bias onto you. So allowances must be made for the passage of time.

It is written in a clear, easy to understand way and meant for photographers, both amateur and professional.
If you are looking for the full legal text with all the if's and buts this is not for you. Try HMO Stationery Office for a bit of heavier reading.

I shall list a few of the chapter topics to give you a flavour of the book.

COPYRIGHT
LIBEL
OBSCENITY
PROHIBITION
RESTRICTIONS
OFFICIAL SECRETS
COURT RESTRICTIONS
TRESPASS
PRIVACY
INJURY RISKS
PURCHASE OF EQUIPMENT
PHOTOGRAPHIC SERVICES
EMPLOYMENT LAW
WORKING FOR YOURSELF
LOSS, DAMAGE, INSURANCE


It informs about places you cannot take photos at without permission, such as court precincts, railway stations, docks etc.
A good buy for three pounds even if a little dated in parts.


Cheers.
Interesting list but misses the two times I had issues with first the Police andonly a year or two later Special Branch.

First was as an anti Thatcher student protester shooting on a demaonstartion for the NUS newspaper in Birmingham. On that occasion I photographed two police officers picking out and then kicking a student, spotted by another officer who then took my camera and ripped out the film and deliberatelyruining it.

The second I was just walking near an abandonded church and rock houses, collared by Special Branch officers who ruined my films deliberately only saying I had no right to be there. In this case it was the Nuclear bunkers earmarked to be the West Midlands regional seat of Government after a Nuclear attack, an old WWII underground Rover factory. I have been around teh tunnels more rexcently and the BBC radio station is still there but long out of use. Ironically it became a clandestine cannabis farm for a spell.

Ian
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  #24  
Old 15th November 2021, 09:05 AM
John King John King is offline
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Originally Posted by Lostlabours View Post
Interesting list but misses the two times I had issues with first the Police andonly a year or two later Special Branch.

First was as an anti Thatcher student protester shooting on a demaonstartion for the NUS newspaper in Birmingham. On that occasion I photographed two police officers picking out and then kicking a student, spotted by another officer who then took my camera and ripped out the film and deliberatelyruining it.

The second I was just walking near an abandonded church and rock houses, collared by Special Branch officers who ruined my films deliberately only saying I had no right to be there. In this case it was the Nuclear bunkers earmarked to be the West Midlands regional seat of Government after a Nuclear attack, an old WWII underground Rover factory. I have been around teh tunnels more rexcently and the BBC radio station is still there but long out of use. Ironically it became a clandestine cannabis farm for a spell.

Ian
Sorry but that sounds like a personal gripe and does not need to be covered in the list of subjects in the book by Nat Polton. Should this not be sticking to the original subject of an overbearing possibly overpaid jobsworth security officer?
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  #25  
Old 15th November 2021, 11:13 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by John King View Post
Sorry but that sounds like a personal gripe and does not need to be covered in the list of subjects in the book by Nat Polton. Should this not be sticking to the original subject of an overbearing possibly overpaid jobsworth security officer?
Interesting stories however, John. The problem with any thread that isn't directly connected to a physical photographic problem such as a process, negative faults etc that has/have a directly related solution(s) is that of deciding what is strictly relevant to Terry's problem and what is not.

A personal experience such as Terry's is almost bound to draw other personal experiences which are only indirectly relevant as each such experience is by the very nature of all experiences somewhat different

Can there be rules as opposed to an "each thread on its merits" approach + the forum's common sense? I am not sure

Mike
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  #26  
Old 15th November 2021, 11:45 AM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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From our Home Page ......


New threads and posts?

New threads and posts, and your participation in them, are the life-blood of any forum. Without them the forum will stagnate and cease to provide the interest that motivates you and others like you, to visit. Therefore it is very important to start a new thread if there is anything you want to discuss, or find out about, as well as participate in the threads already started.

One point worth mentioning here is that you should always open a new thread to discuss a new subject rather than add a new subject to an existing thread. Jumbling subjects within a thread is usually very confusing. Hijacking other people’s threads in this way is considered rather rude and should be avoided.


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  #27  
Old 17th November 2021, 08:11 PM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Sorry but that sounds like a personal gripe and does not need to be covered in the list of subjects in the book by Nat Polton. Should this not be sticking to the original subject of an overbearing possibly overpaid jobsworth security officer?
No not a personal gripe just things that happened.

The first falls outsdede Nat's list. It was essentially criminal looking back in hindsight one police officer destroying evidence of anothers misdemeanour, I was primarily there as a photographer for the NUS not a protestor although every student regardless of their politics was against the Mrs T's proposed student grants cuts.

It was just a small incident that day, one roll of film of many, if I'd wanted I could have raise the isssue officially but then far worse happened on other far more political protests which only had fringe support which I did not support, it was the norm though early 1970's.

But it is related to the OP's post, heavy handed Security or Policing. The second incident with a Special Branch officer was a polite request and I was wrong to suggest it didn't relate to Nat's list as it did in respect to:

PROHIBITION
RESTRICTIONS
OFFICIAL SECRETS
TRESPASS
PRIVACY

The major issue was the site was on the southern edge of a nature resereve, entrances and small areas had plenty of warning signs but access to some derelict rock houses and a closed churh weren't restricted from all directions.

Ironically I'd shot no images that would have been an issue but 45+ years later and having been back a few times and since abandended and sold I might have been able to photograph aspects of the access security.

Again no personal gripe it was common knowledge locally that there was a nuclear bunker in the hillside. Having been shooting around there since and going underground (official visit) seeing the BBC news room and the transmitter towers many years earlier it was a site of last resort.

There is a need to sometimetimes restrict photography but as the OP comments it needs to be measured and rational and often it isn't.

Ian
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  #28  
Old 17th November 2021, 10:07 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Interestingly, shortly after Terry launched this thread I was watching a video made by a man who lives in Bedford but spends a lot of time in London and does his street photography there. He speaks to what I think is his own camera in real time while he is shooting and said he had been followed by a security guard from St. Pancras station. He went on to say he eventually stopped, turned round and confronted the guard who apparently chose not to engage in a meaningful conversation or even admit he was following but then stopped following. It was clear that this was the first the presenter had experienced this and it did seem to unnerve him

You'd think that by now the companies' employing such guards would see the sense in training these guards how to interact with the public. Maybe the guard had had a training course but in his case it hadn't been very successful or maybe that guard was just a Walter Mitty would-be MI5 agent

It clearly was an unnerving experience for the video presenter and just maybe it was intended to be just that, unnerving, in order to dissuade him from entering St Pancras station again

Mike
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  #29  
Old 17th November 2021, 11:46 PM
John King John King is offline
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They need to speak to British Transport Police because they usually have no problem with photographers in fact they have often used images in crime detection. Yes I think he must have been an under cover Inspector Cleusau. Was there a pink panther nearby?
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  #30  
Old 19th November 2021, 12:42 AM
Lostlabours Lostlabours is offline
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Technically photography is not allowed on London Transport, however it is allowed with permission still and vudeo and there's details on their website.

But of course there's plenty of video survailance and plenty of people do take photps and these aren't usually an issue, it depends what you are photographing. But if you are seen documenting access points, areas of congestion, then that rightly raises red flags. It's common sense.

Ian
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