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  #11  
Old 10th January 2022, 04:19 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Lee View Post
Marty, by how much do you reduce your film development times for rotary processsing? I think I read somewhere that Jobo recommend sticking to standard development times - provided the film is pre-soaked. I'm interested in using my CPE2 for film developing from now on. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Richard
Certainly that's the finding of John Tinsley who wrote a book called "The Rotary Processor Manual" back in the 90s. His findings were limited to Pan F, FP4 and D400

However and just speculation on my part I'd have thought that it is likely to apply to HP5+ as well. Other films by other makers were not covered and I have no experience of using rotary processing.

Mike
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  #12  
Old 10th January 2022, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lee View Post
Marty, by how much do you reduce your film development times for rotary processsing? I think I read somewhere that Jobo recommend sticking to standard development times - provided the film is pre-soaked. I'm interested in using my CPE2 for film developing from now on. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Richard
Hi Richard, so I’ve just checked my negative sheets and I gave Ilford Delta 100 @64, 9mins and 30secs @21c. With rotary agitation, I generally choose the longer times/lower temperatures so to keep the reduced development times reasonable.

Now here’s the fun part, on my original data sheet from BEFORE 2020 Delta 100 wasn’t even listed but shortly AFTER in January 2020 Delta 100 appears!
Therefore, it seems that I gave my films about 27% less development time. They all print well, those taken on sunny days and those on overcast days. So, with this film dev combo and depending on your rotary device you could start with times around -25% and take it from there.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf PMK_BERGGER.pdf (115.2 KB, 147 views)
File Type: pdf BERGGER_PMK_DATASHEET_EN.pdf (149.8 KB, 144 views)
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Old 10th January 2022, 06:31 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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So just to be clear, Marty, do your reduced times of about -25% include a pre-wash as well or are they without any pre-wash?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 10th January 2022, 06:49 PM
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-25% of development time only and I would always give a 5 minute pre-wash with Bergger PMK. I know the jury is out on whether to pre-wash or not and the influence it has on development.
And more generally, common wisdom on the internet tends to be around -20% for rotary agitation.
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Old 10th January 2022, 07:30 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Thanks Marty so just to be sure I have understood your position, it is as follows:

With D100 you use a reduced time of about 25% for rotary processing but no pre-wash. With Bergger PMK you use a 5 min pre-wash and a reduced time of about 25% as well?

Is Bergger PMK the only film that you give a pre-wash to and do you give about -25% to all your other films as well?

You are right about the jury being out on the size of the reductions for rotary processing. In Ilford's case r that reduction in time seems to be 15%, others mention between 15-20%. Ilford leaves a question mark over what, if any, the reduction should be with a pre-soak. The way it expresses itself allows you to draw your own conclusions but seems to suggest that a smaller reduction is required if a pre-soak is used but no percentage is given because it recommends avoidance of a pre-soak.

Ed Buffalo in Unblinkingeye gives the times that several photographers have arrived at for rotary processing and it seems to vary between different films and photographers.

It would be nice and simple if everyone agreed that inversion times applied to all rotary processed film as long as a 5 min pre-soak is given. Unfortunately life is never that simple in film processing

Mike

Thanks
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Old 10th January 2022, 08:39 PM
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No Mike, not quite, Ilford Delta 100 is the film and Bergger PMK is a pyro staining developer.

I would always pre-wash with Bergger PMK for nothing less than 5mins as I believe it helps even development, especially with large format film. I don’t believe in short pre-washes. I’ve read that pre-washes increase contrast and also that it decreases contrast, I’ve never tested the theory!

On rotary development, I’ve chosen this method as I don’t trust myself with the ‘taco’ method of shuffling film in a tray, in the dark for LF. For medium and small format, rotary agitation isn’t really a necessity as hand-tank development works very well.
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Last edited by MartyNL; 10th January 2022 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 10th January 2022, 09:48 PM
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Here's an example of Ilford Delta 100 processed in Bergger PMK for 9mins 30sec with continuous rotary agitation.
The photo was taken handheld with a Fujifilm GA645zi, zoomed in.
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Old 10th January 2022, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nat Polton View Post


.....Main things though, Phenidone is now recommended to be 0.375g instead of the old recommendation of 0.25g. You may have the old formula.
No chemical stop bath, just plain water. And it has to be an Alkaline fixer. Otherwise you will lose the stain that you are trying to put onto the film.

........
I used the original amount of phenidone and got very poor shadow density, about 2 stops under normal. The one part mixing appealed to me. Maybe the higher amount of phenidone would solve the problem. If it works for you (or even if it doesn't) please let us know.

Personally I agree with Barry above about Pyrocat-HD. Two parts, not one part is the only disadvantage. Everything else about it is superb.
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Old 11th January 2022, 12:40 AM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyNL View Post
No Mike, not quite, Ilford Delta 100 is the film and Bergger PMK is a pyro staining developer.

I would always pre-wash with Bergger PMK for nothing less than 5mins as I believe it helps even development, especially with large format film. I don’t believe in short pre-washes. I’ve read that pre-washes increase contrast and also that it decreases contrast, I’ve never tested the theory!

On rotary development, I’ve chosen this method as I don’t trust myself with the ‘taco’ method of shuffling film in a tray, in the dark for LF. For medium and small format, rotary agitation isn’t really a necessity as hand-tank development works very well.
Thanks Marty. Yes, I should have read the pdf you supplied on PMK and even the letters PMK should have given me a clue that it was a developer

It sounds lethal stuff if carelessly handled

Frankly the lesson I have learned from times for rotary processing as opposed to inversion agitation is that it is case of "suck it and see" in each case for any film and developer combination

I'll stick to inversion

Mike
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