Durst M370 Colour for black and white

[beetcleaner]

I recently acquired a Durst M370 Colour Enlarger. Used the filtration values on the Ilford website to match using a Grade 2 multigrade filter.
The enlarger came with a large amount of Ilford paper which is probably about 15-20 years old but was well sealed.
My first prints lacked contrast. Do I need to start increasing the filtration on the colour dials to correct this or is it possible to use Ilford multigrade filters on this colour enlarger?
The red filter was missing that goes underneath the lens so I used a 49mm red filter from my camera instead so dont know if that had any impact.
Long story short, for a beginner like me would I get better results using a black and white head with multigrade filters rather than a colour enlarger using filtration dials?
Thankyou for any advice

[John King]

If the paper it is as old as you say it will have started to degrade and lack contrast no matter how much filtration you use. If you have no idea how it was stored that will not help either.

The paper you are using will be Ilford MG4 which in itself has not been produced for about 12-18 months. The replacement, MG5 is a far better paper all round.

The filter system with a colour enlarger will be more consistent than the ones provided by Ilford because those can/will fade after a time. I have two sets of these which are shall I say suspect. The ones in an enlarger which are made from glass can give finer grade graduations do not fade. The main benefit of Ilford's own MG filters is they will give precise changes of grade, but with Ilford's filters the timings for exposure between I think Gd 1 and Gd4 will not need any exposure time changes.

I have never needed to use the red filter underneath the lens in fact my enlargers do not have them, I took them off because they got in the way!. Simply I set the focus on the enlarger. set what filtration I need, then shut the light off. Place the paper or test strip underneath and make the exposure. With modern papers leaving the light on there is a risk his can slightly fog the paper, I may be wrong, but I don't use it.

It sounds as if you are teaching yourself which is fine and don't make too many errors. I learned when darkroom printing was used by everyone and if I had a problem there was always someone to ask, this was obviously much easier. In the place of face to face people who know what they are about the members of FADU will all help where they can and are a true encyclopaedia of information. After nearly 60 years, I am still learning! Don't give up trying, it does get easier.

[beetcleaner]

Hello John
Thankyou very much for your advice. Sounds like the colour head on my enlarger will be ok.
The (large) amount of paper that came with it had been stored in a garage so the combination of that and it's age is probably the issue.
Im going to order a pack of new paper and see how I get on with that.
As you say it's good to have this site to seek out information and help. it's been 35 years since I made a darkroom print and that was on a Durst 35. The prints are still as good as the day they were made so I'm keen to get back into this side of photography.

[John King]

You will find that the light given out by a colour enlarger will be significantly less than a plain B&W enlarger, simply because of the light path has to go via a mixing box instead of through a condenser(s).

The contrast from a colour enlarger can be (but not necessarily) less and some say this hides the grain but that is something I have not really noticed or being bothered by. It can also make dust marks less noticeable too. Personally I prefer a condenser enlarger when printing B&W because of the much shorter exposure times when making big enlargements.

Have fun!

[big paul]

welcome to FADU .First I must say I am a condenser enlarger user ,But you should try to get on with your enlarger before you start buying another one ,I would muck about with the filters on the enlarger till you get something you like and work from there .there is a lot of practice and experimenting to get a print you are happy with ,but when you do its a great feeling of achievement .Just keep going and good luck


www.essexcockney.com

[beetcleaner]

Thankyou gentlemen. Is the Durst M370 B and W head a condensor enlarger? If so I could try to pick one up as it would fit my column etc
If not could you recommend one?

[John King]

Originally Posted by beetcleaner

Thankyou gentlemen. Is the Durst M370 B and W head a condensor enlarger? If so I could try to pick one up as it would fit my column etc
If not could you recommend one?

Offhand, I don't know for certain, but my feelings are that it is similar to your less the colour filters because the outer physical appearance is of a similar shape/size.

[alexmuir]

The lack of contrast could be the paper, but it could also be caused by some other factor. As far as the enlarger is concerned, it should be capable of top quality prints from multi contrast papers. Components that can affect print contrast are the bulb, and the lens. If the bulb is old, it may be giving out more yellow light, which will lower contrast. Starting with a new bulb is a good idea. The lens is important, as any dirt, or damage can cause flare, and again lower contrast.
Assuming the equipment is ok, you should perhaps buy a small pack of fresh paper to see how your prints look. It doesn’t really matter which paper, as long as it is fresh stock. Similarly, fresh chemicals will always produce the best result.
I store paper in my garage, and have had good results from packs that have been kept for a number of years. Your issue could well be paper that’s past it’s best, but I wouldn’t write it off until you’re sure it is. When I got back into my darkroom after several years away, I threw out paper which I now know would have been fine.
I have used both condenser, and diffuser type enlargers for B&W printing, and don’t have any strong preference. Both can produce excellent results. I would try to make the existing equipment produce the results you want.
Alex.


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[beetcleaner]

Hi Alex
Thankyou for your advice which all makes sense. I took the bulb out of the enlarger last night and while it looks ok i'm going to order a new one to rule out any issue there.
Everything else inside looked clean and in good order.
The lens is an El Nikkor and I will double check it is cleaned before my next printing session. I'll order 25 sheets of the new Multigrade V RC Deluxe and make a print then use the old paper at the same setting to see if there is any difference. It would be good if the old paper is ok as I got boxes of Ilford IV RC paper with it that hadn't been used.
I'm toying with the idea of buying an Ilford under the lens filter kit which would allow me to use multigrade filters instead of the colour dials. Maybe an unnecessary expense but it might be simpler to start out with and could be used for split grade printing once I get a bit more experienced.
I think I need to walk before I can run!

[alexmuir]

The Ilford below lens filter kit works well. It makes it very quick to switch grades. I learned to use multigrade with that type of filter system. It works equally well with condenser or diffuser enlargers, and is easily fitted to your Durst. It comes with a red filter. If you have to remove the existing red filter to fit the Ilford kit, make sure you plug the mounting hole to make it light tight. A brand new Ilford kit is best as secondhand ones can be faded through use. I bought one like that, it was very unsatisfactory. Good luck with your printing!
Alex.


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