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  #11  
Old 17th November 2021, 05:58 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Hi Terry,
About your highlights blocking up, as the man said in the video, when you dilute D76 (or ID11) you get a compensating effect. Highlights are kept in check and don't get too dense, but the shadows build up as normal. Actually, the mid-tones go down slightly as well, so it is usual to give extra exposure if you are going to reduce development. In other words, rate FP4 at 64. This pushes the midtones up and gives the lovely midtone contrast and bright upper midtones that makes FP4 so appealing to me. Diluted ID11 and diluted Perceptol do this very well, as does Pyrocat HD. The man in the video said you get this compensation with 1+3 dilution, but I have found that you get it just as well with 1+2.
If I were you I would give the 1+2 dilution a go.

Alan
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  #12  
Old 18th November 2021, 01:14 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Many thanks Alan.

I've just checked the digitaltruth dev chart and there are times for HP5+, my go to film, at all dilutions. So next time I load a film up, I'll give the 1+2 dilution a go. Especially as it's only a couple of minutes longer than my current development time with 1+1.

Terry S
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  #13  
Old 18th November 2021, 01:41 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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I'd be interesting in trying the 1+2 dilution at some point as well, but I wonder if the times in the massive dev chart are accurate? E.g. for FP4 it's only 30 sec. longer at 1+2 vs. 1+1 (11.5 min. vs. 11 min.), while going to 1+3 sees a jump to 20 min. That just doesn't seem right. OTOH, the times for HP5 seem more realistic.

Alan, Ian - did you get your times for this dilution from the MDC? Or by your own testing? Do you have any preferred times and ISO values to share for FP4 and HP5? Many thanks.
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  #14  
Old 18th November 2021, 02:00 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Svend there is also a 2 degree difference as well that accounts for only 0.5 mins difference:
Ilford FP4+ID-11 1+1 125 11 11 11 20C
Ilford FP4+ID-11 1+2 125 11.5 11.5 11.5 22C

Mike
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  #15  
Old 18th November 2021, 02:02 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Svend there is also a 2 degree difference as well that accounts for only 0.5 mins difference:
Ilford FP4+ID-11 1+1 125 11 11 11 20C
Ilford FP4+ID-11 1+2 125 11.5 11.5 11.5 22C

Mike

Good catch Mike! I didn't see that.

I'd still be interested in hearing from Alan and Ian as to what their times are....
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  #16  
Old 18th November 2021, 03:02 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Svend there is also a 2 degree difference as well that accounts for only 0.5 mins difference

Mike
Yes, well pointed out Mike.

I've gone and double checked my time for HP5+ and I'm OK on that with no temperature change. But it goes to show that one has to check carefully, checking the film speed, the dilution AND the temperature quoted, along with any notes at the end.

Good lesson learned today.

Terry S
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  #17  
Old 18th November 2021, 04:04 PM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svend View Post
I'd be interesting in trying the 1+2 dilution at some point as well, but I wonder if the times in the massive dev chart are accurate? E.g. for FP4 it's only 30 sec. longer at 1+2 vs. 1+1 (11.5 min. vs. 11 min.), while going to 1+3 sees a jump to 20 min. That just doesn't seem right. OTOH, the times for HP5 seem more realistic.

Alan, Ian - did you get your times for this dilution from the MDC? Or by your own testing? Do you have any preferred times and ISO values to share for FP4 and HP5? Many thanks.
Svend, my times were worked out by testing and tweaking ID11 1+2.
12.5 minutes for FP4 rated 64. 14 minutes for HP5 rated 200. These are target times for 35mm frames exposed in hazy sun, and yield negatives that print on grade 2 or thereabouts. If the sun comes out full, those frames might need grade 1.5. If it goes behind a cloud then I might need to print on grade 3.5.
I develop at 20degrees C. and after 4 initial inversions, give one sloooowww in version every 30 seconds.

Alan

Alan
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  #18  
Old 18th November 2021, 04:07 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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I will use the time-temp adjustment chart for ID-11/D76 to find the right time for 20C.

As an aside - I found John Finch's video very interesting, but it did not match my experience with D76 at 1+3 at all. I found the tones to be flat, all greys, no guts. Same with Perceptol at that dilution. I have since switched to 1+1 for both developers and really like the tones, grain and sharpness that I get, esp. from Perceptol. That said, I typically overexpose by 2/3rds of a stop or so, then develop for full box speed. So it's hard to compare with Finch's negs, as they were shot at box speed.

In any case, I'm now keen to try at 1+2 to see if it can retain the punchy tones I like, but with a bit more economy in developer use. Would be nice to get a couple more films out of a litre of developer.
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  #19  
Old 18th November 2021, 04:13 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Clark View Post
Svend, my times were worked out by testing and tweaking ID11 1+2.
12.5 minutes for FP4 rated 64. 14 minutes for HP5 rated 200. These are target times for 35mm frames exposed in hazy sun, and yield negatives that print on grade 2 or thereabouts. If the sun comes out full, those frames might need grade 1.5. If it goes behind a cloud then I might need to print on grade 3.5.
I develop at 20degrees C. and after 4 initial inversions, give one sloooowww in version every 30 seconds.

Alan

Alan

That's great to know - thank you for sharing Alan. Gives me a good starting point. As just mentioned, I tend to rate all my films lower than box speed...maybe not a full stop like you though .

Very helpful! I have a couple of rolls of HP5 to develop, so will definitely give this a try.

As for Perceptol, I am not inclined to change dilution. I really like what I get at 1+1, esp. with PanF, so I'm sticking with it.
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  #20  
Old 18th November 2021, 05:47 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Clark View Post
I develop at 20degrees C. and after 4 initial inversions, give one sloooowww in version every 30 seconds.

Alan

Alan
Alan, this agitation regime is considerably less vigorous that Ilford's recommended one. Over say 12 mins yours is 4+ 1x 22 = 26 agitations and Ilford would be 4 x 12 = 48 so roughly double. I wonder how much difference it makes to the negative compared to the Ilford pattern?

Mike
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