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  #1  
Old 26th September 2009, 09:20 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Default Kentmere paper - help needed with some puzzles

I have just bought some Kentmere VC/RC glossy on e-bay. The seller said he thought it was about 18 months old( note this as it may be relevant ).

The possible significance of 18 months old paper is that this might mean that the paper was amongst the last to be produced by Kentmere in Cumbria. It certainly has the Cumbria address and the instructions have a different style to that I associate with Ilford. Does the Mobberley Kentmere paper now have the Harman address?

Both the single filtration instructions and the dual filtration ones are completely different to those that are now on the Harman site pertaining to Kentmere paper.

In fact Harman seems to have simply transcribed its own Harman MG IV paper filtration to the Kentmere instructions but without giving the half grade values that is included with Harman paper( puzzle no1?) It might be a simple oversight which will be corrected in later instructions

My understanding is that Harman has maintained whatever was distinctive about Kentmere but if Kentmere had its filtration values correct or nearly so then unless Harman has changed the emulsion so it is now identical to Harman paper emulsion, can anyone think of another explanation? So puzzle no 2 and the bigger and more important of the 2 puzzles so far, it seems to me.

Yet if the filtration values are now as per Harman, presumably some distinction remains such as surface or is Kentmere's "fine lustre" and Harman's "pearl" now the same?

The other distinction was(is?) that Kentmere paper was a stop faster than most others. Certainly my Kentmere is faster but as I said my paper is probably Cumbrian produced and not Mobberley produced.

So has anyone here experience of both the old Cumbrian Kentmere and the new Mobberley Kentmere and if so has anything changed?

If Harman intends to retain Kentmere's distinctiveness, presumably it has Kentmere "runs" at Mobberley where it then has to take the time and trouble to change quite a number of things to make the run.

I am far from knowledgeable about silver gelatin paper production but having seen Mobberely twice, I know enough to know that changing runs isn't something to be undertaken lightly unless there is a real business pay-off to doing so.

The more I think about it the more sceptical I am about a future for Kentmere paper as a separate entity.

The key question is: What is the evidence that Kentmere is in fact still the same old Kentmere having been moved to Mobberley? Certainly the change to Harman filtration is difficult to reconcile with it being the old Kentmere - well it is to someone like me who maybe knows too little to supply any good answers.

For what it is worth here is the original Kentmere filtrations based on the Durst group of colour enlargers with the new Harman supplied Kentmere filtration in brackets:

Single filter: Grade 00 = 80Y(120Y); Grade 0 = 40Y(70Y); Grade 1 = 15Y(40Y); Grade 2 = 20M(0); Grade 3 = 40M(30M); Grade 4 = 60M( 75M); Grade 5 = 130M(130 M)

As an aside it isn't clear to me why Kentmere didn't supply half grade filters. Was it to do with it being a small player? Jessops didn't supply half grade figures either despite their grade figures being the same as Agfa's who did supply half grade figures.

Dual Filtration: Grade 00 = not given(120Y); Grade 0 = 40Y(88Y +6Y); No half grades given; Grade 1 = 25Y + 20M(64Y + 12M); Grade 2 = 10Y + 45M(45Y + 24M); Grade 3 = 5Y+50M(24Y +42M); Grade 4 = 60M(10Y +69M) Grade 5 = not given (130M.

Anyone care to add their comments. Well at least those of you who haven't lost the will to live after getting to the end of this thread :

Thanks

Mike
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Old 27th September 2009, 06:33 AM
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I would use the filter values supplied with the paper as a guide.
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Old 27th September 2009, 06:34 AM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Ilford said that they run off a large stock of paper at Kentmere before closing the plant. When that stock is exhausted, they will have to use their own plant. I doubt that they will then be able to reproduce the original Kentmere characteristics accurately given the variables involved.
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Old 27th September 2009, 09:07 AM
Tony Marlow Tony Marlow is online now
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I have a box of Kentmere VC/fibre glossy which came direct from Mobberley this year as a replacement for a wrongly labelled box from elsewhere. This replacement box stated on the label "made by Harman Technology." The filter values for this new box are different to the old filter values from Kentmere and the information sheet is in a completely different form from the old Kentmere sheet.
Tony
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Old 27th September 2009, 09:42 AM
Tom Kershaw Tom Kershaw is offline
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I think Kentmere Kentona and some of the other Kentmere papers are no longer being manufactured. The situation with Kentmere Bromide is somewhat unclear. Perhaps we will be left with the Kentmere semi-Variable Contrast paper and the RCVC paper.

see: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/...te-harman.html

Tom
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Old 27th September 2009, 09:47 AM
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On the plus side:
Quote:
The market has long requested a variable contrast version of KENTONA and HARMAN is pleased to announce that its product development department is now working on this as part of the launch of THREE NEW PAPERS within the KENTMERE FINEPRINT VC range. It is anticipated that this new warmtone, glossy paper will be available later in 2009.
Well, a plus assuming they do actually produce it... If so, it will be a very interesting option.
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Old 27th September 2009, 10:23 AM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kershaw View Post
I think Kentmere Kentona and some of the other Kentmere papers are no longer being manufactured. The situation with Kentmere Bromide is somewhat unclear. Perhaps we will be left with the Kentmere semi-Variable Contrast paper and the RCVC paper.

see: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/...te-harman.html

Tom
That's a very old post Tom.

I've just had a look at Ilford's web site, Kentmere doesn't get much of a mention, in fact under Products Catalogue it gets none!
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Old 27th September 2009, 11:58 AM
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The Harman/Kentmere products still have their own site. Unless it is simply the products they used to produce.
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Old 27th September 2009, 01:25 PM
Dave miller Dave miller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sallan View Post
The Harman/Kentmere products still have their own site. Unless it is simply the products they used to produce.
This does look like a newer site, but still well out of date judging by the date on the press release, however the product information should be current.
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  #10  
Old 27th September 2009, 05:21 PM
Tom Kershaw Tom Kershaw is offline
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Dave,

As far as I'm aware Harman haven't yet stated the situation with Kentmere Bromide.
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