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Old 3rd December 2019, 11:47 AM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Default 6x6 wideangle camera

I am always disappointed by the performance of my (ridiculously expensive) Hasselblad 50mm Distagon, even the later one in a Prontor. I acknowledge that the design of all SLR wideangle lenses is complicated by the requirement to allow for the swing of the mirror. But the asking price of the rangefinder Mamiya 6 or 7 with 50mm is even more fabulous (£1500...£2000). Are there affordable alternatives?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 12:23 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
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You could look at the Bronica SQ series. There is a 50mm, both in the older S version, and the more recent PS. I think you could find a camera, back and lens for under £500. It’s the system I use. I would avoid the SQaM as the motor can eventually become troublesome. You would have to look at the spec for the two 50mm lenses to see whether they would meet your requirements. I’m happy with mine, the older S version, but I’ve never looked at how it measures up in terms of sharpness, contrast etc.
Alex


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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:48 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
You could look at the Bronica SQ series. There is a 50mm, both in the older S version, and the more recent PS. I think you could find a camera, back and lens for under £500. It’s the system I use. I would avoid the SQaM as the motor can eventually become troublesome. You would have to look at the spec for the two 50mm lenses to see whether they would meet your requirements. I’m happy with mine, the older S version, but I’ve never looked at how it measures up in terms of sharpness, contrast etc.
Alex


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Some lens tests here: https://kievaholic.com/lenstests2.html

Bronica 50mm and the Distagon are included.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 05:39 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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Some lens tests here: https://kievaholic.com/lenstests2.html

Bronica 50mm and the Distagon are included.
Thanks, Svend. Interesting reading. What a mammoth task!
Jonathan
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Old 3rd December 2019, 08:09 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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Thanks, Svend. Interesting reading. What a mammoth task!
Jonathan
No kidding!

I have since taken a closer look at the test images there, and despite the author's disclaimer about the limitations of his testing of the Bronica lenses (no mount adaptor; lens hand-held against the camera body), I thought the Bronicas acquited themselves remarkably well. I mean, just look at the 80mm Bronica compared to the Hasselblad Planar directly below it. I can't tell the difference. Amazing really.

Since you're interested in improving edge sharpness of the 50mm, you'll be keen to review the results on the wide angle page. The Schneiders seem to do very well. Can you get one in a Hasselblad mount?

Edit: upon a closer look, the best for edge sharpness at f11 seem to be the Bronica 40, the Zeiss Jenas, and the Schneiders. Interesting test...
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Last edited by Svend; 3rd December 2019 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 6th December 2019, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Svend View Post
No kidding!

I have since taken a closer look at the test images there, and despite the author's disclaimer about the limitations of his testing of the Bronica lenses (no mount adaptor; lens hand-held against the camera body), I thought the Bronicas acquited themselves remarkably well. I mean, just look at the 80mm Bronica compared to the Hasselblad Planar directly below it. I can't tell the difference. Amazing really.

Since you're interested in improving edge sharpness of the 50mm, you'll be keen to review the results on the wide angle page. The Schneiders seem to do very well. Can you get one in a Hasselblad mount?

Edit: upon a closer look, the best for edge sharpness at f11 seem to be the Bronica 40, the Zeiss Jenas, and the Schneiders. Interesting test...
I was surprised to see that the 40mm Zenza-Bronica appeared sharper than the 50mm - especially wide open. He does point out that he didn't have an adaptor for the Bronica lenses so that may be a factor. I recently got a 40mm S version to add to my (somewhat war-torn) 50mm and was expecting at least some drop in quality but, from that test at least, it appears not.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:17 PM
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B&W Neil B&W Neil is offline
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I have used them all but if you are looking for 'the best bang for buck' and very quality a Mamiya C with a 55mm Sekor takes a lot of beating.

And it's a light combo to carry around too.

Neil.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 01:33 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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I have used them all but if you are looking for 'the best bang for buck' and very quality a Mamiya C with a 55mm Sekor takes a lot of beating.

And it's a light combo to carry around too.

Neil.
+1

I have the C330 with the 55mm, and it is a very sharp lens with lovely tonality. The C220 is lighter and more basic, but perfectly capable. The 65mm is said to be even better, but I have not tried it. Very rugged cameras. I'm not a big fan of the ergonomics of the C-series, but some people think they're great...I just put up with it because the results are so good and the camera is so damned tough and versatile.

Prices on these are reasonable -- about the same as Bronica SQ in these parts.

Edit: a question comes to mind -- what is it about the Distagon that you don't like? It would help to know so that I might comment on whether Mamiya TLR wides may be more suitable.
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Last edited by Svend; 3rd December 2019 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 03:50 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
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+1
Edit: a question comes to mind -- what is it about the Distagon that you don't like? It would help to know so that I might comment on whether Mamiya TLR wides may be more suitable.
I bought a Hasselblad 500CM kit, 50mm, 80mm, 150mm, about 9 years ago, when prices were at their lowest. The 50mm Distagon f/4 was in a Compur. The camera is used primarily for architectural detail, on a heavy 1960s tripod, mirror up, cable release, aperture f/11, exposure times 1/4 to 1 sec, Delta 100 film.
The negs, processed in Rodinal, are printed with a De Vere/Ilford 500 head and Componon (not 'S'). Enlarged to A3 (approx 8x), detail in the corners were noticeably degraded compared with similar features shot with the 80mm Planar f/2.8. I discussed this in these and other pages and the response was to invest in the later version (in a Prontor) with a floating element - effectively two focusing rings. There was an improvement but it's still not as sharp as the 80mm Planar, which is my reference.
I'm quite happy to focus manually, using a £10 B&Q laser distance measurer, so I don't need a reflex camera.

Last edited by JOReynolds; 3rd December 2019 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 08:21 PM
Svend Svend is offline
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I'm quite happy to focus manually, using a £10 B&Q laser distance measurer, so I don't need a reflex camera.
I wonder if a Mamiya Super 23 with a 6x6 back and wide angle might work well for you? Their lenses are said to be excellent.

Or perhaps even better, a Speed Graphic or Century Graphic or similar with 6x6 roll film back and Schneider lens. You could use the movements for perspective correction, and the camera would still be relatively compact when folded.

Finally, have you considered the Rolleiflex SL66? Their lenses are also Zeiss-made, but with the advantage that they ride on a lens board and therefore have no internal moving elements (better performance?). Bruce Robbins has one -- you might ask him how good the Distagon is on that camera, if he's used it. These cameras sell for reasonable money right now....less than Hasselblad I think.

Lots of options. Too bad you weren't closer or I would lend you my C330 and the 55 lens to try out.
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Last edited by Svend; 3rd December 2019 at 08:24 PM.
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