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  #11  
Old 5th December 2016, 10:16 PM
NJHrs NJHrs is offline
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I agree with Alan. I am using Tri-X and Acros developed in Rodinal. The Agfa instructions say "continuously for the first minute, and then tilt every 30 seconds". I have taken that to mean 1 inversion, 1 slow inversion does also take me about 4 to 5 seconds. Then let the tank settle and gently bang on the counter to dislodge any bubbles. I am using the times from the Massive Dev chart btw and did an exposure test only to find my favourite frames were in both cases the middle ones (1+50 box speed times). Many have reported the times as being to long but I think they must be agitating to vigorously as I found both very close to optimum. Now that I have the densitometer I plan to do a proper zone test to really nail things in accordance with this procedure:
http://www.zone2tone.co.uk/zone-system-film-testing.htm
using it on some of the non-keeper negs though seems to be indicating a decent 1.3 range or so above base+fog. As a side point to just how much commercial labs can overdevelop negs I tested one of my old films with dense looking frames and was getting a range closer to 2.0 in one case .

Last edited by NJHrs; 5th December 2016 at 10:24 PM.
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  #12  
Old 6th December 2016, 08:49 AM
Garry Garry is offline
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Thanks all for the input. I can see that there are varying opinions on the process! The film I have shot is purely for processing purposes, so nothing precious. Would be great if they came out well though. I need to work out the whole process from beginning to end. I have downloaded this Ilford guide which seems pretty comprehensive. I just need to alter for the chemistry I am using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O'Pray View Post
Be sure to show us your developed film,Garry. I think the mods allow scans of negs for analysis purposes which I think your first developed film falls into.

If you print from the negs then a scan of the prints will be even better.

Mike
I will definitely post the results. Not quite sure how yet, but I'll try! I would love to try and print my own, and I could borrow an enlarger too, but have no area I could use as a dark room in my house. One day hopefuly.

Thanks all again,

Garry
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  #13  
Old 6th December 2016, 08:55 AM
Garry Garry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJHrs View Post
Now that I have the densitometer I plan to do a proper zone test to really nail things in accordance with this procedure:
http://www.zone2tone.co.uk/zone-system-film-testing.htm
using it on some of the non-keeper negs though seems to be indicating a decent 1.3 range or so above base+fog. As a side point to just how much commercial labs can overdevelop negs I tested one of my old films with dense looking frames and was getting a range closer to 2.0 in one case .
I must be honest, I read this through a couple of times, and didn't understand 1 word (Well, perhaps "non-keeper negs"! Sorry
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  #14  
Old 6th December 2016, 09:48 AM
Alan Clark Alan Clark is offline
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Garry, there are several reasons why there are varying opinions on the process.
One is that peoples' water supply varies. People whose tap water is soft, and has no foreign matter in it will get negatives that are free of drying marks and "spots" but those living in a hard water area can get all kinds of marks, and have to resort to wetting agent, wiping the film after hanging it up to dry, using distilled water for the final wash -or even the whole process - etc.
Another is that people are not all pursuing the same end result. So if you like grain you may be happy with what you get when you agitate vigorously, but more gentle agitation, which suppresses grain slightly, may be the preferred method for others. Or if you want a contrasty negative because it suits your enlarger or the way you print, you will develop more in a given developer, or prefer a different dilution than someone who wants a lower contrast negative.
The list goes on...
So Richard uses one set of methods because they work for him, and I may use slightly different methods because I have found they work for me.
The problem arises when someone tries to argue that their methods are "the best" without taking into account that someone else's circumstances and requirements may be different from their own. When someone tells me that their way is best I can't help thinking about the satirical story that Jonathan Swift wrote about the people of Lilliput and their neighbours who fell out and went to war over the argument about which end of a boiled egg you should eat first.

Alan
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  #15  
Old 6th December 2016, 10:28 AM
Garry Garry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Clark View Post
Garry, there are several reasons why there are varying opinions on the process.
One is that peoples' water supply varies. People whose tap water is soft, and has no foreign matter in it will get negatives that are free of drying marks and "spots" but those living in a hard water area can get all kinds of marks, and have to resort to wetting agent, wiping the film after hanging it up to dry, using distilled water for the final wash -or even the whole process - etc.
Another is that people are not all pursuing the same end result. So if you like grain you may be happy with what you get when you agitate vigorously, but more gentle agitation, which suppresses grain slightly, may be the preferred method for others. Or if you want a contrasty negative because it suits your enlarger or the way you print, you will develop more in a given developer, or prefer a different dilution than someone who wants a lower contrast negative.
The list goes on...
So Richard uses one set of methods because they work for him, and I may use slightly different methods because I have found they work for me.
The problem arises when someone tries to argue that their methods are "the best" without taking into account that someone else's circumstances and requirements may be different from their own. When someone tells me that their way is best I can't help thinking about the satirical story that Jonathan Swift wrote about the people of Lilliput and their neighbours who fell out and went to war over the argument about which end of a boiled egg you should eat first.

Alan
It is these effects that I am quite ignorant of. Varying the methodology to achieve different results (I like grain for example!) is something I am very curious about and interested in long term, but for now, all I want is a recognisable and usable negative!
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  #16  
Old 6th December 2016, 10:45 AM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
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Gary,
Thats why there is so much different advice. we all use the methods that we have worked out, in most cases, over several years, but we all started out with that first film, and went from there, no one method is better than the next photographers, if it works for you,fine, we all learn from each other, I have learnt a lot from others here and I hope others have learnt a little from me, best advice is to start byfollowing the instructions on the chemicals, see if you like the results, and adjust from there, also, if you don't mind a bit if grain, the you have the right developer and film, I found that Kentmere 400 is nice film, but a bit grainy, and any paranol/rodinal type developer used with a fast film will give sharp but grainy 35mm negatives,
Richard
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  #17  
Old 6th December 2016, 04:12 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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By the way Garry if you can borrow an enlarger and have a room with a bit of space that can temporarily be yours then at this time of year a set of heavy curtains on the window will be enough. If the room isn't polluted by external artificial light such as nearby street lamps then ordinary curtains might be enough

Paper is nothing like as sensitive as film. Unless you are good with no light, except the merest of light from outside sources and some people are, then a cheap red safelight will do.

Mike
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  #18  
Old 6th December 2016, 04:13 PM
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Bob Bob is offline
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I invert twice, slowly - taking about 5 seconds in total. It's not critical, you just need to wash the surface of the film sufficiently to remove stale developer from the surface of the film.

Also, don't panic about temperature control. Only the developer temperature is in any way critical so you should try to get that as close as practical, but the stop and fixer can be a few degrees out with no problem (but try not to give the film a thermal shock by going from 20C developer to very hot or cold stop/fix. Stay within a few degrees - if there is steam, or ice cubes, in the stop bath, that is probably not ideal )

As you can see from other's posts, the refinements are almost endless, but as you already mentioned, just get your first couple of rolls under your belt by following the instructions and you can start tweaking things once the mechanics of it all become familiar.

Have fun!
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  #19  
Old 6th December 2016, 08:35 PM
KeithM KeithM is offline
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Good luck, Gary - hope it goes (or has gone) well! Nothing more satisfying than pulling the wet film off the reel and - yes - there are images!
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  #20  
Old 8th December 2016, 09:05 AM
Garry Garry is offline
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Still not managed to get time to do this yet. Hoping to have time on Saturday. Also trying to work out how I can get a darkroom into my garage. If I tidied it up (a lot!) I should have plenty of space. Hmm, exciting times!
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