Close-up and Bronica SQ-A

[alexmuir]

I’m trying to do some close-up work with my Bronica, but with limited success. I have 50 and 150mm lenses, and also the two extension tubes. These get me close, but not enough. Does anyone have experience of the 80mm lens for close-up work? I wondered if using that with the tubes would be better. I’m not looking for extreme close-up, but I couldn’t get a single Clematis flower to fill the frame.
Alex


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[JOReynolds]

The basic optical equation (which I can't reproduce here because of the limitations of the text editor - the sum of reciprocals) ) shows that your 50mm lens will produce a larger image at the film plane at a given extension than an 80mm.

[Michael]

Would this be it, Jonathan? from the BJ photographic almanac, 1955.

[alexmuir]

Thank you, Jonathon and Michael. It looks like the 80mm won’t be the solution. I’ve ordered a couple of supplementary lenses at +1 and +2 strengths. Perhaps used with the 50mm and an extension tube I will see a difference. There is a bellows focusing unit available, but I don’t think I can justify the cost for occasional use.
Alex


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[JimW]

I’ve ordered a couple of supplementary lenses at +1 and +2 strengths.

I've used this sort of thing. Simple, effective, relatively cheap.

[alexmuir]

Thanks, Jim. They arrived yesterday, but I haven’t had a chance to try them yet. They are the actual Bronica product, so should be of reasonable quality.
Alex


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[Richard Gould]

Originally Posted by alexmuir

Thanks, Jim. They arrived yesterday, but I haven’t had a chance to try them yet. They are the actual Bronica product, so should be of reasonable quality.
Alex


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Alex,I often use something very similer on my Rolleiflex,cord and Microcord in the form of Rolleiner close up lenses, and they work very well and with the Roleinar 2 I can get to within inches of the subject, close up lenses should work just as well with your Bronica, When I used my Etrs I found that I could get very close with my 75mm standard lens, I never tried either tubes or close up lenses, but with the Rolleic's the quality of the images with these lenses is outstanding,
Richard

[skellum]

Hi Alex.
Your Clematis flower filling the frame on 6x6 is getting close to life size I think. A magnification of 1:1 with your 80mm lens would need 80mm of extension (that is, either the lens at infinity with 80mm of tube or the lens at minimum focus with enough extension tube to add up to 80mm movement).
Your 50mm lens would need less extension to focus just as close, but of course the 50mm takes in a wider field of view, and for macro/ still life it can include too much background.
The other element is exposure- by the time you get down to 1:1 you need to add 2 full stops of exposure. I don't know if your Bronica has TTL metering- good news if it does.
My C330S has bellows focusing and is brilliant for close up work- it even has an exposure factor scale built in. Just by the way, when you use 5x4, how do you calculate bellows factor? Have you seen quickdisc?

http://www.salzgeber.at/disc/index.html

Interestingly, if you use supplementary lenses you haven't moved the lens any further from the film plane- does that mean no exposure increase? Very useful.

[alexmuir]

Thanks, Richard and Colin. I am going to try the supplementary lenses with each lens to see how they work. They don’t need exposure correction.
I have seen the Quick Disk before, Colin, but haven’t tried it. I tend to be a bit of a ‘guestimator’ when it comes to adjustments for B&W film. I had been using a reciprocity correction app that included extension corrections, but more recently have been using the new Ilford reciprocity calculation rather than the app.
There is a bit in the Leslie Stroebel book, ‘View Camera Technique’ about using supplementary lenses on large format lenses. It suggests that quality at f22 should be very good. I have tried that, with some success. Strangely, however, I’ve been reluctant to use supplementaries on 35mm or MF.
I have a free weekend, so no excuse for not getting into some photography!
Alex


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[skellum]

Hi Alex.
Good luck with the supplementary lenses. I've never used them. The Mamiys goes close enough without help, and when I used 35mm for macro extension tubes were cheap and readily available. I can imagine they may work well at small apertures as your working through the centre (and best corrected) portion of the lens.
I do a bit of still life, and the Quickdisc makes bellows calculation easy- include the disc in the composition, measure size on the ground glass, read of the compensation factor.
I've been using Fomapan 100, and sometimes the reciprocity failure becomes hilarious. Small aperture, window light, and a metered exposure of 15 seconds becomes more like a minute. Three and four minute exposures are not hard to achieve.
As you say, sometimes a bit of guesstimation is fine. I'm playing with an un-metered Zorki just now, and sunny-16'ing everything. I'm scoring far more right than wrong, and my exposure judgement isn't what it was when I used to shoot a lot more than I do now.