Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Notices

Go Back   Film and Darkroom User > General discussions > Photography in general

  ***   Click here for the FADU 2015/2014 Yearbooks   ***

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14th January 2017, 08:28 AM
CambsIan's Avatar
CambsIan CambsIan is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 1,326
Default New Project

What do we let ourselves in for ?

Just been asked if I would take on a little project for one of the ladies at work.

She works on a ladies fashion department and wants to put together a portfolio of ladies wedding outfits to take with her when she goes to wedding fairs, also a slide show for a laptop at the same event.

So will be a combined analogue and digital adventure, would like to try classic black and white film (Foma 100 for a different feel) alongside digital colour

All shots will be taken indoors in a "white box" (its a fake display window 8ft wide 4ft deep and 8ft high and painted matt white) with various backdrops, supplied by the display department.

My question is about lighting the set up, where do you start ? I have a couple of 160 led photo lights, with diffusers if needed, that I use for my table top work, but I fear they will be lost on a set up like this.

This any good ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1350W-Cont...8AAOSwux5YV5IC

All advice most welcome, look forward to reading your replies.

Ian
__________________
Learn to live, live to learn
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14th January 2017, 09:20 AM
John King John King is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: County Durham
Posts: 3,319
Default

When you look at something similar to what you have been asked for, there are very few that have a shadow behind whatever is being photographed. How you do this will I think be down to experimentation, trial and error.
They always seem to be photographed with quite flat lighting, head on so the garment is pictured without distracting shadows and as you suggest a constant light, rather than flash may be the way to go. Will the garment be worn or will it be simply the garment on its own? If it is the former, you will have to consider that the model will have to be in the full glare of the lights and he/she may start to get very uncomfortable in a short while.

Its not a task I would care to do, so good luck
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14th January 2017, 10:45 AM
photomi7ch's Avatar
photomi7ch photomi7ch is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 2,516
Default

I am not a fan of continuous lighting my dad used it when filming it got very hot and the bright light always made me want to use sunglasses.

I use flash when in a studio situation and mainly soft boxes so I do not get sharp shadow lines. If you want to stop background shadow then you need to use a flash for the background only. Utube is a good place to get ideas on what to do.

If you are going to have a digital camera present you can use it as a Polaroid to check you have the light right before using you film camera.

I would be cheeky and ask If you could use the space for some test shots to give you an idea of how the light is going to be reflected and how bright the light needs to be to do it's job.

Sounds like a big project Ian all the best for a good out come.
__________________
Mitch

http://photomi7ch.blogspot.com/

If you eliminate the impossible whatever remains no matter how improbable must be the truth.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14th January 2017, 04:21 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Albans UK/Agde France
Posts: 1,074
Default Fashion pix in B&W

Hi Ian
I, too would recommend flash for illumination. And a big softbox (at least 24") is essential - the hard-edged shadows from a small lightsource look dreadful. An umbrella is cheaper but the light goes everywhere, often where you didn't want it. And umbrellas waste quite a lot of the output. Use another head to light the background.
I remember back to the sixties when I was a lowly assistant in a prestigious studio. The warmth created by incandescent lightsources was a problem, especially for food photography. We didn't have the benefit of modern, cool-running compact fluorescent lamps. But full-length views need more than 200 lux over a large area, so the exposure times will have to be quite long - enough to cause blurred detail on the dress if the model moves. Battery-operated speed lights are barely powerful enough, so it has to be studio flash. There are perfectly adequate Chinese versions of Elinchrom kits at low prices (InterfitPhotoGraphic.com has a range of suitable kits). I have such a kit and the claimed 300 joules are as marked. Worryingly, the smell indicates hot-running electronics but I'm on my second pair of modelling lamps, no problems in five years, used several times a year for photographing flat artwork by my wife and her friends. The colour is slightly pink and the scale on the brightness control knobs is fictional. Use the digital camera as an exposure meter for B&W pictures.
Position the key light carefully and fill in the shadows with big reflectors - I see photographers use 6ft x 3ft sheets of 1.5" thick expanded polystyrene, cut in half (so you can get it in the car) and rejoined with a hinge made of 2" transparent carpet - joining tape.
I suppose it's a matter of taste but I like the close grain you get from Delta 400 and Rodinal on high-key fashion shots. I still find high-key B&W fashion shots from the 70s, printed quite hard, really attractive.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14th January 2017, 04:37 PM
alexmuir alexmuir is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Glasgow, Scotland.
Posts: 2,668
Default

I got a book at Christmas called 'Lighting People' by Rossella Vanon. It is right up to date, being published in 2016. It gives info about all available types of lighting, together with basic, and more advanced set-ups. I've found it to give excellent advice in a very easy to read style. It's worth a look for ideas if you're doing this type of project. I got it from Waterstones, so you me be able to have a look at it in a local branch if it is of interest.
Alex.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14th January 2017, 04:57 PM
Terry S Terry S is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Southend on Sea, Essex, England, UK
Posts: 3,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CambsIan View Post
All shots will be taken indoors in a "white box" (its a fake display window 8ft wide 4ft deep and 8ft high and painted matt white) with various backdrops, supplied by the display department.

My question is about lighting the set up, where do you start ?

I have a couple of 160 led photo lights, with diffusers if needed, that I use for my table top work, but I fear they will be lost on a set up like this.

Ian
Hi Ian,

first off I think a couple of people replying haven't looked at the link you gave, otherwise they would realise that they are COOL RUNNING modern lights and not the old HOT RUNNING fotofloods.

First part of your questions mention the 'studio' space. Sounds a bit cramped for full length shots. Is there anywhere else?

You then ask about where to start? I have to ask, are you really up to the job if you have to ask such a basic question? Not being rude here but it made me wonder.

As for the small LED lights you have at the mo, yes definitely too small for this job.

As for the lights in the link, I have a similar set with brighter bulbs (five bulbs in each head compared to a singular one in the link) and yes mine are usable, although I have only ever done up to half length people shots with them even with the extra light, at about 1/60 at f8 on a digital camera at about iso400 and they came out great.

As for the linked ones, full length would more than likely be a real push with them even with a wide f number on the lens. I would think of at least f1.8 or f1.4 50mm lens and even then you might have to use a tripod. You can get MUCH higher wattage and (ie brighter) lamps, so it might be worth seeing if there's a cheapish set with these higher wattage bulbs in them, (preferable more than one in each head) as they would be worth the extra money. It would also be worth googling to see what others get exposure wise with bigger bulbs to help with your buying.

Good luck with it all and I would be interested to hear /see how you get on.

PS just having a quick look so a better price might be available, but this is the type of lighting set up that I have and recommend:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Photo-Stud.../142173799562?


Terry S

Last edited by Terry S; 14th January 2017 at 05:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14th January 2017, 05:33 PM
Richard Gould Richard Gould is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Jersey Channel Islands
Posts: 5,433
Default

Cool running continuos lighting work, but some people just feel uncomfortable with them, they sometimes feel under the spotlight, you will get enough power, but I prefer to work with studio flash, for both still life and portraits, a good 2 head kit with soft box and brolly need not cost the earth, try interfit kits. they are good value and come complete, In fact you could probably get away with one head and some reflectors,many people do, and once you have lit the subject then switch of the modeling light and and away you go, I wonder also if you have much experiance with this type of work, Not trying to be rude, but try and get a good book, or even better a dvd showing you ways of working,Another advantage of Interfit kits is that they all come with dvd's Look at Firstacall's site to give you some ideas of what is around in both continuis light and flash sets,
Good luck, will be interested in hearing how you get along
Richard
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14th January 2017, 06:37 PM
CambsIan's Avatar
CambsIan CambsIan is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 1,326
Default

Thanks for all your replies, as usual food for thought.

Am I up to doing it, I have absolutely no idea.

If it does not work or I can't get it right, it's not a massive failure as this is something the ladies thought they would do as it would be handy for when they go out. Everything they do is unpaid in their own time and unfinanced

This is more just trying to help a friend out as maybe just maybe I might be able to go one better than a point and shoot, which is what they were going to use.

Pretty sure I would have said no if there was any money involved, or any expectation of perfect results from first frame to last.

Once again thanks for the suggestions.

Ian
__________________
Learn to live, live to learn
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14th January 2017, 10:55 PM
JOReynolds JOReynolds is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: St Albans UK/Agde France
Posts: 1,074
Default Working with models

Another contributor suggested Interfit studio flash for your application, which is comforting. Don't bother with clever radio sync devices - the kit comes with a perfectly good lead with appropriate connectors (some Minoltas need a hotshoe adapter, also from Interfit).
Don't used mixed lighting (flash on the clothes, continuous on the background). If you can check balance frequently, as for still life with the camera on a tripod, that's OK, but shooting models in B&W and mixed lighting would be a technical nightmare you don't need...
The main problem, mentioned elsewhere, is nerves.
If you are dealing with amateur models, already known to you or not, there is a risk that either of you will be unable to relax. Try to do a 'dress rehearsal'. Get someone familiar to model for you, not necessarily in special garments. At least, then, you will be master of the apparatus. For example, you will need to get a good balance between the light on the dress and light on the background.
With flash, there is no need for the model to freeze. Get used to the model moving, perhaps twirling to reshape the hem. And it will relax her, too. A chat in the bar first might help.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15th January 2017, 05:53 AM
Martin Aislabie's Avatar
Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
Friend
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, England
Posts: 2,081
Default

When you say Wedding Outfits - do you mean actual Wedding Dresses or the dresses other women wear to weddings ?

White wedding dresses are difficult to light - you actually need to under expose the shots in the order to get some texture detail in to the fabric. And you need to put in slightly contrasty side light in order to get the folds and shapes or the overall dress - say 1~ ish stops of incident lighting difference from left to right.

Do you have a budget to spend ? - hiring a studio for a half or a whole day might be your best bet as to where to shoot - studios can be had for not all that much money £100 ~ £150 per day. Alternatively, if you can re-arrange the shop, you can hire a couple of 500J/s studio flash heads and a background or two fairly easily for about half the money.

As you are working in colour (whether Analogue or Digital) watch out for colour temperature - don't mix and match your colour temperatures. All flash is 5600 K, most pure tungsten is 2700 K ish and LED lighting is available in a range of colour temperatures. Pick one temperature and stick to it - or you will spend many many hours slaving away in Photoshop trying to correct colour casts which result in the use of mixed colour temperature lighting.

Finally, watch out for mission creep. Once you start peoples imaginations tend to run away with them and they dream up all sorts of add-ons. My advice is to start small and then take it from there.

Enjoy - it sounds like it could be a lot of fun

Martin

Last edited by Martin Aislabie; 15th January 2017 at 06:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Support our Sponsors, they keep FADU free:   AG Photographic   The Imaging Warehouse   Process Supplies   RH Designs   Second-hand Darkroom Supplies  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New55 Project Andrew Bartram News and Announcements 0 5th April 2014 07:35 PM
Do you need a 'project' to focus? coigach Photography in general 10 25th July 2010 09:41 AM
New enthusiasm, new project wiesmier Photography in general 8 6th November 2009 12:01 AM
The 'Impossible Project' Roy_H New products and offers 7 23rd January 2009 03:21 PM
100 Print Project Dave miller Photography in general 8 22nd December 2008 11:18 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.