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Old 2nd April 2014, 05:10 PM
Robchaos Robchaos is offline
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Default Film washing?

Could vigorous washing affect results, when I wash the film , I fill the tank and shake it hard , then empty and repeat lots of times.
I have just re-read the Ilford instructions and their method seems a lot more gentle.
I use pure water that I use for window cleaning (my job) so that I don't get any water marks, at 20 degrees.
I think it's just a habit I've got into, and I'll follow the instructions more closely in future, but like I say ,could it have caused any problems??? Thanks Rob.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 05:54 PM
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Argentum Argentum is offline
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its not likely to harm it but at the same time it does little if anything to help. The water needs time for the chemicals to leach out of the gelatin into the water. Slow agitation will do that just as well if not better than vigorous shaking.
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Old 2nd April 2014, 05:58 PM
Robchaos Robchaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentum View Post
its not likely to harm it but at the same time it does little if anything to help. The water needs time for the chemicals to leach out of the gelatin into the water. Slow agitation will do that just as well if not better than vigorous shaking.
Ahh, thank you, I've got an HP5 to do tonight , so when it all goes quiet, I'll get to it...
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Old 4th April 2014, 04:21 PM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Ilford have a recommended wash method that uses minimal amounts of water (although most of us do rather more washes than this) :-

Wash

When a non-hardening fixer has been used wash the films in running water for 5–10 minutes at a temperature within 5ºC (9ºF) of the process temperature.

For spiral tank use, when a non-hardening fixer has been used, the following method of washing is recommended. This method of washing is faster, uses less water yet still gives negatives suitable for long term storage.

After fixing, fill the spiral tank with water at the same temperature, +/- 5ºC (9ºF), as the processing solutions and invert it five times. Drain the water away and refill. Invert the tank ten times. Once more drain the water away and refill. Finally, invert the tank twenty times and drain the water away.


If you want to read the full article, its here - http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/...7133131459.pdf

Hope this helps

Regards

Martin
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Old 4th April 2014, 05:40 PM
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I can highly recommend a motor base depending on the tank.
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Old 4th April 2014, 07:32 PM
Robchaos Robchaos is offline
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Thanks, I've read the Ilford information and started out using this method , more or less, but did get a bit of water spotting on the first films I did. Hence I started washing more vigorously, and for longer, which stopped the water marks. I use absolutely pure water used for window cleaning, so when it dries ,there are no marks.
I am a complete beginner , but I'm not a perfectionist, I just don't want to make too many bad errors.
I am pleased with the results from my last film using a less vigorous wash, but I did wash and empty more times than they recommend .
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Old 4th April 2014, 08:14 PM
Mike O'Pray Mike O'Pray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robchaos View Post
I am pleased with the results from my last film using a less vigorous wash, but I did wash and empty more times than they recommend .
I imagine that given the Ilford method has been in the public domain for many years, any flaws in it would start to show up by now in films washed that way. Having said this I too tend not to have the courage of Ilford's convictions

I must admit that my routine is 5,10,15, 20, 15,10,5. Nothing too cocktail waiterish in the inversions, mind you. This may be overkill but I feel better for it.

Mike
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Old 5th April 2014, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robchaos View Post
but did get a bit of water spotting on the first films I did
I presume you mean that when your films were dry you could see some whiteish marks / spots on the film.

This is caused by water soluble minerals which crystalise as the water dries off the film. The minerals are left behind.

People in hard water areas suffer this particularly badly. The solution to this is twofold, Use distilled/deionised water for final wash of film and shake off as much remaining water from film as possible before leaving to dry.
Dipping in wetting agent as last step can also help water to run off / evaporate.

Some people use some kind of squeegee or chamoix cloth to wipe and remove surface water from wet film but I stopped doing that after scratching too many films along complete length.
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Old 5th April 2014, 10:29 AM
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Argentum, I think that this is a problem we all have from time to time ,I am now only squeegeeing the shiny side of the film and not the emulsion side ,I haven't suffered from any scratches yet, and I have had clean negatives ..




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  #10  
Old 5th April 2014, 11:28 AM
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Martin Aislabie Martin Aislabie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robchaos View Post
I use absolutely pure water used for window cleaning, so when it dries ,there are no marks.
Its better to wash the film with tap water - minerals in the tap water help remove the unwanted salts in the emulsion - the harder the water, the better - surprisingly.

However, to avoid drying marks (and squeegee scratches) its better to do a final rinse of the Negs in pure water.

For those of us not lucky enough to have a supply of window cleaners water, most Halfords shops sell de-ionised water for about £4 for 5 litres, which I find leaves no drying marks.

I leave the Negs to soak for at least 1 minute in the de-ionised water, with occasional agitation (2 inversions every 30 sec ~ ish)

Martin
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